re. Topweight at Glenrowan
From: Sharon Hollingsworth – 14 Dec 2014
Warren, you bring up a good point regarding how could Ned Kelly have mounted his horse with all that armour on without a “leg up,” so to speak. You do seem to have quite an analytical and inquiring mind! You have to remember that Ned was a fine physical specimen, at the height of his power and prowess. He was seen as extraordinary by many who knew him, I think the term Aaron Sherritt used to describe him was “superhuman.” From doing research into knights in shining armour, I know that there are accounts of most armoured men being able to mount their horses unaided. There is even an account of someone who could take a running leap from behind and mount while fully armoured! Of course, most of the average armour weight back in the Middle Ages was about half of what Ned’s weighed, though some of the fancy jousting armour could weigh as much or more than his did.
At that time if a knight in a tournament was older and really past his prime or/and obese he might need a bit of help mounting, though. According to Ian Jones in “A Short Life” just after Ned was first wounded he was trying to mount his horse but sank to the ground with blood pouring from his arm, then, he “somehow struggled into the saddle.” Later when he had returned to the Inn and was leaving again (remember he had been wounded and losing blood for several hours) he again tried to mount his horse, but, according to Constable Gascoigne “I saw the horse rear up in the yard, and the man could not get on, and she broke through the slip rail…” So, I do wonder if Ned in his weakened state could have still mounted if the horse had not gotten spooked and bolted. Not sure if any of this is of help, but I tend to believe that Ned, at least early on, could have gotten onto his horse unaided without the help of a mounting stump/post or rail. That pesky iron apron you speak of does give one pause, though!
From: Rodney Donnini – 12 Dec 2014
Hi I would like to know if I am a descendant of the Kelly family. My mothers name was Emily Maisie Clarke, her fathers name was Alexander Clarke and mothers name was esther nollinger. I was told a long time ago as a boy that the Kelly’s were in our family, is it possible to find out if there is a connection.
From: Sherallee Schubert – 11 Dec 2014
I just bought the new book Ned Kelly under the Microscope. Well worth buying. Not a very thick book for the price but if you are Ned nut like me you will love it. Looks deeply into the investigation that the VIFM in Melbourne did on the Kelly scull and Neds remains from Pentridge. It also looks in depth at the dig at Glenrowan. Lots of intresting photos through out the book. Also just read on line that the scull that was stolen from the OMG has been compared to DNA taken from the remains of Frederick Deemings brother in the UK. It is not a match. It states that his brother may have been adopted. But if it is not Deeming I wonder who it is? The mystery is still frustrating where Neds scull is. I believe parts of it were souvenired by prison staff or the medical student who cut him up. I hope I am wrong. skull…
Topweight at Glenrowan
From: Alan Crichton – 5 Dec 2014
G’day Warren, I hope you don’t mind me posting your email on Ironoutlaw’s feedback page as I thought the question on your previous post, Ned’s horseriding at Glenrown, was interesting. There are many questions to be answered in the Kelly story, some can, and many cannot at this point in time. So what the heck, ask the question and I’m sure some Nedite out there just might have the answer. Sorry about your feedback not getting through Warren, I’ll just blame the boss (and I’ll blame the Christmas Gremlins):
G’day there Alan, thank you for your reply to my query regarding Ned, with armour , riding his mare at Glenrowan.
I greatly appreciated you reply, especially having read your very knowledgeable posts to the Iron Outlaw website over the years. I was flattered that you replied.
I tried on two occasions to reply, with thanks, on the site, with no luck at all ? Hit the send button at the end of the email, both replies sunk without trace.
I’ve been fascinated with the Kelly saga just about all my life. As a small boy about five years old, with no idea of geography I was convinced Ned’s armour was in one of the paddocks near our home in rural NSW. Actually I would have had more chance of finding Ben Hall’s fob watch than Ned’s helmet but never occurred to me at that age.
As I grew older, I’m 72 now, I realised that he Ned’s story was one of the really great pieces of Australian social history that could be studied. There were documents, photos and a history that you could still, in the 60’s and 70’s you could almost touch. Nothing much had changed. Wonderful authors, some not so wonderful of course, wrote beautifully about the days when the Kelly’s rode. Ian Jones, Max Brown, Keith McMenomy, Noelene Allan are standouts and of course Justin Corfield’s Encyclopaedia is a well worn reference book.
For all that reading over the years, had missed the irrefutable fact that Ned, fully armoured, had indeed mounted his horse and ridden to Bracken’s house and to the railway line. When I read Peter FitzSimon’s book and again read of the rides, calculated the weight, the awkwardness etc . I wondered. I received a very nice email from Sharon Hollingsworth no less, pointing out that the feat was well documented and of course when I re read the books she mentioned, it was all there. Bracken under oath said Ned was in armour.
I got to thinking then, that not everyone in those days would have been able to leap into the saddle like a Hollywood cowboy, and that older people, people with dodgy knees etc. would use a handy tree stump, or a fence rail to get into the saddle and that’s probably what Ned did, strong as he was I couldn’t imagine him putting his left leg in the stirrup and throwing the other leg, with that infernal apron getting in the way, over the back of his horse.
I’m happier now I’ve worked that out. It’s only a little thing but it’s what Kellyphiles like myself like to get right. The story goes on and I never tire of it, or visiting the Kelly country.
Thanks again Alan for your very welcome and informative reply.
Original Ned Kelly Newspapers
From: The Hunters – 19 Nov 2014
I have a couple of framed original full newspaper pages about Ned Kelly. One has two pictures of the Glenrowan siege and Ned in full armour with a detailed article. I also have the front page of the Illustrated Australian News featuring large sketch of Ned in the court dock. I am keen to know if there is anyone who could appraise their value. I am also keen to know if there is any Ned Kelly auctions that are coming up or anyway I may be able to sell these to Ned Kelly fans.
From: Jessica Andrews – 15 Nov 2014
I have always been enthralled by the story of Ned Kelly and once when reading the words that his mother had written after visiting him in gaol when she looked at his bruised and beaten face I actually sobbed for a quite a few minutes. I have four grown sons of my own and can well imagine the pain that Ned’s wonderful mother experienced. The Information and photographs published on this internet page has been further illuminating and I think had I been living in those times and had my sons and daughter been persecuted in the same way I would understand how young men and families became outlaws. Even in today’s times of 2014 there still exists a culture of the elite and the underdog … although perhaps not seen in those terms … however injustice is still practiced to many in our own country. How cruel our own government is right now to people who flee persecution. Thank you Max Brown for your researth and information I have enjoyed reading.
Two Great Men
From: Lisa – 14 Nov 2014
Sir John Monash is considered to be Australia’s most brilliant military leader. The great man and leader who accomplished many great things in WW1 and his life after the war was asked in later years what he most remembered about his life, and he replied – meeting Ned Kelly and the battles in France. He is said to have spoken about meeting Ned as a boy (when Ned passed through Jerilderie selling horses in 1877/78) often and that Ned gave him ‘some good advice’. In later years when asked what the greatest moment of his life was, Sir John Monash replied – “The day Ned Kelly asked me to hold his horse in Jerilderie”. He also commented that ‘his attendance at a state banquet at Buckingham Palace was comparable to the occasion in which he had met Ned Kelly.
Loved and Remembered
From: Lisa – 11 Nov 2014
Dear Ned, thinking of you today and always. Ride In Peace throughout the Strathbogies. You are loved and remembered FOREVER. X
Save Ned Kelly’s House
From: Lisa – 28 Aug 2014
Great News! The National Trust will be bidding on Ned’s childhood home in Beveridge when it goes to auction and (whether they buy it or someone else does) will be setting up a fund where the public can donate to make sure Ned’s house will be preserved and looked after forever as a National Treasure.YAY!
re. Ned’s horse riding at Glenrowan
From: Alan Crichton – 20 Aug 2014
G’day Warren, I’ve just finished reading Ned Kelly Man and Myth, all to do with the symposium held in Wangaratta around Easter in 1967. Ian Jones is asked the same question and his answer was, he was on horseback and in armour down at the line on a couple of occasions. It was on one of those occasions I believe he broke a strap or fitting on his armour. In Jones A Short Life he stated that when Joe and Ned went off to pick up Bracken from his home, they buckled on their armour, helmets slung on the front of their saddles, and rode off with the Curnows and others. Whether they were helped in the saddle or mounted by themselves, I don’t think we will ever know. What I do know is that Ned Kelly was a determined and extremely powerful man to say the least, and if he needed to mount in 40 kg of armour, nothing would have stopped him. After little sleep for 48 hours, and seriously wounded, the armour’s weight didn’t seem to deter him during his early morning standoff with police on his return to the Inn. I think mounting would have been a struggle but not impossible.
Pay To Stay At The Old Melbourne Gaol?
From: Lisa – 6 Aug 2014
Ugh! I find this (gaol-kicks-off-national-trust-hotel-brand) to be very disrespectful. Ned would never believe it. I’ll wait until they put the pool in…
Ned’s horse riding at Glenrowan
From: Warren Trick – 24 Jul 2014
I’ve been engrossed in the Kelly story ever since I was a small boy and I’m certainly a long way past that time of life now. I have always understood that Ned did not, could not, mount his mare because of the sheer weight and awkwardness of the armour and yet on pages 509 and 510 of Peter FitzSimons’ book (which I enjoyed) has Ned twice riding down to the rail line to observe the police action after the arrival of the special train. I’d like to hear other views on this part of the story. I’m not being pedantic, just interested.
28th June 1880
From: Lisa – 28 Jun 2014
Remembering Ned , Joe , Dan and Steve on this day. Ride In Peace across the Strathbogies tonight boys.
Ned Kelly by Monty Wedd
From: Lisa – 9 Apr 2014
WOW! This book is just beautiful! I received my copy today and it is already one of my favourite Kelly Gang books.The drawings by Monty Wedd are incredible and it is so wonderful to see the whole comic series put together in book form. Thanks so much to (the very lovely and funny) Nat and the team for putting the book together so perfectly. And thank you Brad for keeping us updated here at IronOutlaw on the books release. Yes, it looks amazing and it’s a great addition to the Kelly library!
From: Juggy – 26 Mar 2014
Hello. Im just wondering if you would have any information on the ‘Mr Morgan’ from who John Red Kelly is meant to have stolen the calf. Probably a strange request to get, but im doing my family tree and in doin so found that our family surname was originally Morgan. There may be no connection, but no harm asking. The name of my of interest is ‘George Morgan’ later to become ‘George Wilson’. I know he come to Australia via Tasmania (stole silver spoons), later turned up near Ballarat then Camperdown area where he died. Any help in way of links or confirmdeny name appreciated.
Ned Kelly Figurine
From: Michele – 13 Mar 2014
Hi I was recently at a second hand shop in Brisbane when I found this figurine, I’ve come up trumps everywhere I’ve looked! Can you help me? I don’t think you mean ‘trumps’…
Letter written on behalf of Kelly, Melbourne Gaol
From: Mark – 2 Mar 2014
I live in Toowoomba QLD, today whilst visiting a pioneer museum in Dalby QLD, I came across a letter dictated by Ned requesting permission for his sister to bring him suitable clothes for his upcoming court appearance and he also requested a visit by his mother, The letter is signed Edward X (his mark) Kelly. 1. Was Kelly able to sign his own name. 2. The letter has a number of signatures on the back of it. 3. It was originally owned by an aboriginal family who may be descendants of the QLD trackers. I intend to go back and photograph it this week, hopefully. Any thoughts? Yes Ned could read AND write but it would be hard to do much of the latter when your hand has been smashed by numerous bullets…
Ned Kelly: A Short Life by Ian Jones
From: Edward Love – 28 Feb 2014
Hi there, I recently acquired a book ‘Ned Kelly A Short Life’ by Ian Jones. This is quite a common title available in many editions. The edition I have is a ‘special edition’, 1996, with slipcase, leather covers, red silk bookmarks and a limited edition page after fore page, signed by the author, copy number 203 of 220 copies. The book is beautifully presented, I’m sure someone there would be familiar with this special edition. Any information such as rarity, estimated worth etc. would be appreciated. Thank you for your time. Nice pick-up…
Ned Kelly by Peter Fitzsimons
From: Charles de Jongh – 17 Feb 2014
Being new to the story of Ned Kelly, I was wondering what others think of Peter Fitzsimons’ book on Ned Kelly?
re. Height and Weight
From: Alan Crichton – 31 Jan 2014
That’s correct Ron … not one trooper killed! Ned has admitted that during the early stages of the siege he was close enough to have taken life, but chose not to. Why? These four young blokes known as the Kelly Gang were all psychopathic killers according to the Police, yet during the eighteen months after the unfortunate circumstances that led to the deaths of three troopers in the Wombat, they harmed not one person, including the many civilians held during their two bank heists. The shot in the dark from Ned Kelly striking Mr Hare in the wrist at the beginning of the siege, was simply that … a shot in the dark in the direction of a shotgun flash. The police on the other hand seemed intent on shooting at any man woman or child that came into their sights. The police shot and killed civilians during that encounter but were never made accountable for their actions. With the ancient Outlawry Act on their heads, and an 8000 pounds incentive for any being to shoot them dead on sight, these four young men had nothing to lose. For the trumped up charge of attempted murder of a trooper at Eleven Mile Creek, which started the whole affair, and the shooting of three troopers at Stringybark Creek, they knew they were all “dead men walking” by bullet or rope. In Ned’s admission he was at Glenrowan to simply end it. What he meant by that could be for a number of reasons. He was tired of living outside normal society … He wanted to put an end to the police brutality and corruption … Take the gluttonous selectors to task over their control of all the good land, or was it a grander plan that would put an end to it all? For four so called brutal killers who were all good marksmen with an abundance of weaponry and ammunition, why was there just one police injury? With many well armed sympathisers secreted in the surrounding scrub, why didn’t Ned allow his supporters to attack the police? With the removal of their helmets for better aim, the gang no doubt could have caused some serious injury to their attackers. But that’s what a brutal killer would do, isn’t it? Today they kill their hostages one by one until the police meet their demands. These four young men were not premeditated killers. These men were simply caught up in one of life’s cruel events that changed their lives forever, hurling them into the arms of our Australian heritage and culture for all eternity. P.S. I think Ned was around 6 feet tall and probably 6’2″ in heels. Not sure of his weight at Glenrowan because of all the brandy consumed to ease the pain, but at a guess around 13 stone. Well said Al (and welcome back)!
Height and Weight
From: Ron Harrigan – 26 Jan 2014
Have read a lot about Ned kelly, and google search has him anywhere, between 5.8 to 6ft and 11.5 to 13.5 stone. What a can gather in my latest book. He was 5.10 and 11.5 stone when first goaled at 16. With his hard labour and the journey to man hood may have accounted for the differance! I would also like the thoughts on the seige. It appears to me Ned was prepared to die there and excepted his fate, there was a lot written about the gang and there gun handling skills all top shots, but not one trouper killed, one or two wounded!
re. Geoffrey Robertson QCs View of Ned Kelly
From: Mick Fitzsimons – 12 Jan 2014
What a great human rights lawyer Geoffrey Robertson is if he stated that. He obviously is not aware of the abuse of human rights that helped start the Kelly Outbreak. As for there would have been 80 or 90 killed, what a load of rubbish! I’d say he’s been reading that very anti Kelly book. The one that is one sided and full of half truths and innuendo and very selecting in leaving out the wrongs committed by police.
Geoffrey Robertson QCs View of Ned Kelly
From: Michael Bates – 20 Dec 2013
In the NSW Telegraph on 30 November 2013 the barrister Robertson was quoted as saying: “People go out of their way to find excuses for him but there’s no excuse for the terrorist atrocity that he was planning at Glenrowan because that would’ve killed 80 or 90 people.” Is that true? No.
Free Ned Kelly tour map
From: Lindsay Knox – 16 Dec 2013
To whom it may concern, Myself and partner are a great supporter of “NED KELLY” And intend saving to holiday to go on a “NED KELLY” tour. We are both an elderly couple and rely on a pension. With respect is it possible please to obtain a free “NED KELLY” tour map to support our holiday, included any other information that may support our stay. I greatly appreciate your time and assistance. Look forward to your reply. I suggest you try any of the larger information centres dotted across this great state of ours. From whom it did concern…
Which book to buy?
From: Wes – 4 Dec 2013
Appreciate if you could recommend a book to buy, l have a 12 year old who really enjoys the Kelly history. I think a few illustrations would be good and not too “heavy”. Australian Son? Illustrated history? Inner history of the kelly gang? Thanks in advance. There’s quite a few young adult friendly books listed in our Library section so feel free to browse the collection…
Last drinks at Glenrowan
From: Michael Barry – 28 Nov 2013
Hi guys. Not sure if we ever sent you this one, we played it at the beechworth reenactment a few years back. Thought you might appreciate it. If you want to link or put it in a player on the site let me know. Lyrics below, song file attached:
Tell me now my brother
what red glistens in the sun
Bright as rises morning
on the hills of Glenrowan
That no man claim my liberty
my brother he replied
who never raised a hand against
a man unless he tried
for those who’ll not yield to the crown
nor make to bend the knee
and that may choose to live or die
and yet still shall be free
Hand me now my pistols dark
Raise up my iron crown
Cage me now in righteousness
put not my burden down
And yoke such Bullocks to the plow
as make harvest of Men
’till weep the blinds from Justice’ eyes
yet shall I be avenged
If Man be but a breath in clay
His passage pain and strife
to yearn for freedom to his end
and know that such is life
George Vesey Allen
From: Martine Russell – 21 Nov 2013
George has a connection to my family. I believe he was at the siege of Glenrowan as a reporter for the Telegraph. Can you help me find out more about him other than Trove ? I would love a photo…
From: John Liggitt – 15 Nov 2013
Hi. Just thought I’d drop you a line, please don’t get me wrong I’m not a conspiracy nut. It’s just that the moment I saw the picture of Joe Byrne from Ian Jones’s “The Fatal Friendship” I thought it looked like a younger version of the Constable Scanlon. Just out of curiosity I added a beard to the Joe Byrne just for comparison… Spooky!
From: Lisa – 11 Nov 2013
Rest In Peace dear brave Ned, you are Loved and Remembered forever. X …11.11.1880…
From: Mel Sumner – 10 Nov 2013
Just like to share a gut feeling i have of ned . ive loved him since i was a kid , his handsome face seemed to radiate strength of charactor , sensitivity . i dont beleive he was a saint , i beleive he was probably hot headed and perhaps a little vain , yet beleive his heart was good . police then as now can be revoltingly corrupt and have amongst their ranks sadistic bullies , anyone with a little life experience would have to acknowledge . ned was one man who wouldnt take shit basically . tough as they have ever come , everyone would have to agree . he was sent here to be an emblem of fighting back against injustice . today we have some police who peddle heroin like roger rogerson who get off scott free , or like paul dale who had two people killed and again walked . be vigilant , people , and treat with contempt those paid by the public purse that intimidate , bully , harrass to satisfy their sadistic natures . ned , you were a beauty!
From: Garrry Fearon – 6 Nov 2013
Hello, I see that you’re a fan of not only Ned but also broader Australian history. Have you heard of this man? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Wills There’s a link at the bottom there on why Tom is a legend like Ned, fascinating read. Here’s a painting someone did of Tom and Ned together. Great stuff!
Yet another Ned Kelly Song
From: Ken Stewart – 5 Nov 2013
Here is another Ned Kelly song to add to the list.. “Ballad of Ned Kelly” (One of Us) Video Slide show. And the lyrics are listed below. I’m sure you’ll know what the Bluey played for Essendon reference is. (Bluey Shelton). My reason for writing this song is because the mainstream media regularly tries to debunk the legend of Ned Kelly. It makes me believe that Ned’s life and image still unites us and reminds us that we can’t always trust authority. This would explain how come Ned is still a threat to the establishment. As a working class Australian I have always been inspired by how Ned stood up to the corrupt colonial rulers and bent coppers.
Ballad of Ned Kelly
When Ned was young, there were rich and poor
Squatter’s coppers bangin’on selected doors
Trumped up charges..”Lets put the Kellys away!”
When history is written, the victim gets no say
Three years in gaol is a long time for a kid
Hearin’stories about what the troopers did
To his mother, his brother and his loved
Didn’t make him bitter, just made him tough
Oh Ned, one of us, yeah one of us
At 10 he saved a boy, drowning in the river
flood waters made a mortal shiver
In the face of danger, Ned would just laugh
Bluey played for Essendon, Ned got a silk scarf
Ned, lookin’ out for your own. You risked your tender life
Grateful celebrations. We loved you ‘cos you cared.
Blood of Eureka had stained official hands
Revolution was stirring in the land
Ned stood up to- injustice and corruption
His defiance, earned our admiration
You beat the ambush at Stringybark creek
Robbed some banks and burned the title deeds
Told us what had driven you to crime
The letter was hidden the reward just got higher on
Ned, one of us, Standin’ up to authority when it’s unjust
The local coppers misused police powers
Walkin to the gallows you stopped to smell the flowers
Ned it wasn’t fair. A drunken copper lied. A coward’s accusations
And you weren’t even there.
Remembered well for the iron and Glenrowan
You are revered for the truth that you’ve spoken
For “such is life”, “I fear death as a cup tea”
Republic of Australia, for you and for me
Ned, one of us, standin’ up to authority when it’s unjust
They made you hang for fighting back
30,000 signatures say “you got singled out”
Ned, one of us, Standin’ up to authority when it’s unjust
Ned, one of us, Standin’ up to authority when it’s unjust
From: Christopher Wiencke – 9 Oct 2013
My Great Aunt grew up and lived next to Ned Kelly’s family she attended primary school with Ned’s sisters and as they were very poor she often had to deliver excess eggs and produce to help Mrs Kelly feed the family. As I was doing my leaving certificate I had to present a paper of something of unusual in the events of Australians history, so i did a one on one interview with my great aunt. She actually thought that Ned had been persecuted by the constabulary unfairly and it all grew out of proportion and thus the end result. However this was from a personal inside account. I think that I do still have the speech which was in as it happened so hopefully I can find it. A very interesting subject that you are exploring and possibly he was more innocent then has been portrayed before.
re. Scanlon and Lonigan
From: Mick Fitzsimons – 1 Oct 2013
Well deduced Alan and I concur with your meticulous findings. 10/10 Old Chap!
Free Ned Kelly app
From: Airi Repetti – 17 Sep 2013
The State Library of Victoria has just released a free Ned Kelly app (Ned Kelly at the SLV) available for the Apple iPhone and Android enabled smart phones.
My Great Grandfather was James Whitty
From: Mark Whitty – 7 Sep 2013
John L Whitty was my Grandfather. My Dad was Percival James Whitty, my mother was Maggie Morrison. Dad had a store in Moyhu. He was a Moyhu footballer, and a good piano player. I am a jazz musician and so are my children and grand-children. Your story is really excellent thank you.
From: Sheallee Schubert – 4 Aug 2013
Going to Beechworth in 2 weeks time. Going to the Cemetery and hope to find Aarons grave and Anton Wicks, the Gaol, the Court house, Wallshed falls and doing the Ned Kelly walking tour. Have been to the museum. Any added info about Beechworth from anyone on the forum would be great. Have done Glenrowan several times.
From: Pete (Stinger) Nettleton – 9 Jul 2013
It seems to me that the only mention of Aborigines in the Kelly story is about the 6 trackers brought by Stanhope O’Connor from Queensland, referred to by Ned as ‘little demons’ (well, he was a man of his times). It beggars belief that there were not plenty of Aborigines living in the North-East of Victoria at the time, given the abundance of bush tucker, although I can’t say there is much evidence of it left today. If Ned learned his bushcraft from Harry Power, where did Harry learn his, he being an Irish-born escaped convict? Has the Kelly legend been ‘white-washed’ over the years?
Rest in peace
From: Lisa – 28 Jun 2013
Long may they reign, the Kellys, Byrnes and Harts! 28th June 1880…
re. What could have been … Errol Flynn as Ned!
From: Lisa – 21 May 2013
Hee hee! I think Ned would have looked great in green tights.
re. What could have been … Errol Flynn as Ned!
From: Alan Crichton – 16 Jun 2013
Still trying to get that image of Ned with a thin moustache and wearing a pair of green tights out of my head!! Lisa, what have you done? Ditto!
Bill Bryson ‘Downunder’
From: Peter Prassinos – 6 Jun 2013
In the book by Bill Bryson about his journey through Australia, he quickly dismissed the Ned Kelly story by claiming that he was a thug and committed heinous acts on the body of Sgt Kennedy – removing his scrotem! I have not seen any reference to such a claim and would like to contact Bryson to correct this allegation unless someone knows anything different. Yes, a few of us would…
What could have been … Errol Flynn as Ned!
From: Lisa – 21 May 2013
Some years ago my Nan researched our family tree and one of the interesting things she found was that we are related to Australian actor Errol Flynn. My brother was reading up on Errol recently and found this interesting bit of info – ‘His Dream project was a biopic about the notorious Australian-Irish outlaw Ned Kelly, which nearly got produced by Warner Brothers in the mid 1940s.’ Wow how great would it have been if that movie was made! Errol Flynn is always so terrific and lovely to watch in movies, it would have been fantastic to see him as Ned. Such a shame it didn’t happen.
From: Lisa – 1 May 2013
President Edward Kelly definiately gets my vote! 😀
From: Steve Jager – 25 Apr 2013
It’s great to see that there are people from all over World taking an interest in the Ned Kelly story so I thought I might share a newspaper article I recently came across that mentions how close Ned Kelly came to altering the political landscape of Australia.
Border Watch (Mount Gambier, SA : 1861 – 1954) Saturday 17 February 1945 (page 5)
NED KELLY PRESIDENT
After the Kelly Gang had been broken up, certain papers and documents were found which in dictated that Ned went close, to altering the whole political history of Victoria, it is stated that if Ned had succeeded in wrecking the police train he intended proclaiming north-eastern Victoria a republic, with Benalla the capital city and himself as first President. Only the fact that the train was running late put the knocker on the gang’s plans and hopes. Had the plan carried, it is certain large numbers would have flocked to the banner of the Kellys, for their sympathisers were legion throughout Australia.
And we still are! Keep up the great work IronOutlaw! Will do!
re. Melbourne Gaol
From: Sherallee Schubert – 20 Apr 2013
Kylie Zahirski, Ned Kellys life is facinating. The more I reserch the subject the more I learn. Its awsome. I have been to many Ned Kelly sites and have loads of photos I can email to you. I can also send you info on places of interest and whats there and whats to see. If you are interested just let me know. But I warn you, once you are hooked on Ned you get obsesed! I am a true Ned Nut!
From: Jill Holloway – 20 Apr 2013
Hello, my name is Jill Holloway and I am researching my niece’s family tree. My niece Linda is a decendent from a Elmer line. In Linda’s family tree she has Lily Eliza Elmer born 1874 she married a William F. Beel, they married 29/1/1896. I have read on line that between the Elmer’s and the Beel’s there is some connection to Ned Kelly the out law. I have read some article’s online and it says there is a link between these surnames to Ned Kelly. I’m wondering if you know the link and if you can forward it on to me. Linda’s grand father is Francis Sydney Elmer, his father is Francis Laurel Elmer, and his father is Sydney Moses Laurel Elmer, I have done a lot of work for her, and would love to tell her there is a link to Ned Kelly. If you can, can you send me some work to show the link if there is one. Your help would be greatly appreciated.
Ned and another Wayang Kelly
From: Mike Burns – 14 Apr 2013
Hi there crew. I’ve had a project going for over twenty years doing a shadow puppet performance of aspects of Ned’s story, using puppets based on Javanese shadow puppet technique. One youtube episode is youtube.com/watch?v=My0wmaSUuKQ and the others can be sought from its sidebar. I’m mounting a new performance for the Fremantle Heritage Festival in May, and was researching Isaiah “Wild” Wright, when I came upon your fabulous webpage – brilliant. The new show “Ned Kelly meets Arjuna” is under construction at the moment, and the meeting between Java and Australia happens in three episodes: first, in the opening scene, a wandering Javanese clown (Semar) meets Wild Wright, who recognises Fremantle, claiming he’d passed through it once in his Kimberley days, offers to introduce Semar to the local gods and heroes so he can get about his work, and thus meets the Wandjina spirit and Ned, allowing our story to start in real time; halfway through the show the Kelly Gang meet the Pandawa brothers, heroes of the Mahabharata, who, like the Kelly Gang, have been exiled to live in the forest, and in sharing one another’s stories. become better acquainted and form alliances; finally, despite Padawa aid, Ned is hung, but in ascending to legendary status, meets his old friends and the Wandjina, who also mentions the Northern Aboriginal dreamings about Ned, Captain Cook and Bima, who seems to occupy a good deal of the northern Indonesian-Australian sea. Along the way, many songs, fights and yarns. I’m hoping I can use some of your jpeg images for projection via data projector during the show, but can’t download them as yet. I can’t offer you anything but acknowledgement – we have no budget, but any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Keep up the good work. Good luck and keep us posted!
From: Kylie Zahirski – 12 Apr 2013
Hi there i went to melbourne gaol in april and i am so interested in ned kellys life now i have brought books looked up ned kelly on the internet it is so interesting to know what his life was like if theres any info drawing or anything that u could email me about that would be great as im am so interested and my kids are very interested in it as well …. i would say to anyone that knows a bit about ned kelly and wants to know more it is worth going to the gaol it is so good that i am going back there and taking my partner. i am in adelaide but its worth another look.
Annie Margret Kelly
From: Hamish Catto – 9 Apr 2013
Hi. I was wondering if you could tell me more about myself. John Ryan married Annie Margret Kelly. What does this make me? Annie’s parents were Alice mee o meara and Daniel Kelly. Thanks.
re. Police Harassment
From: Lisa – 29 Mar 2013
Ugh! That scumbag Hare is one of the police I HATE the most, because of that very thing.
From: Paul O’Keefe – 23 Mar 2013
It’s quite well known of the disgraceful police harassment and treatment that the Kelly family (defenseless women and children) and their friends suffered under the Victorian Colonial Police forces hunt for the Kelly Gang . What is less well known is the extent the police went to, even poisoning many of their family pets. I was doing some research of late, when I came across Superintendent Hare’s testimony at the Royal Commission that was held in March 1881. I thought I would share this with your readers. Hare questioned at the Royal Commission:
Q1369 When Senior-Constable Mays reported to you, you came to the conclusion that he had acted wisely, as the outlaws had cleared out?— Yes; and I may say that sympathizer dogs and the dogs of the relations were a great nuisance to us. The next time I went to this spot, I appointed a man with a few baits and a bag, and told him to drop a bait here and there, and let any animal that liked pick it up.
Q1370 Baits to destroy dogs? — Yes.
From: Christine Potter – 19 Mar 2013
Hi, I am one of the many great, great children of William Williamson. Firstly I would like correct a misprint that William Williamson was not related to the Kelly Family he was first a border at the Kelly place and later their neighbour. I am attempting to trace William’s life in the Greta district of Victoria. Whilst I have gathered a fair amount of information I would be grateful for any material you have on William and Fitzpatrick incident that lead to him being sent to prison for 6 years and serving four of the six year. Thanks in advance for you assistance in this matter.
Dan and Steve
From: Geoff McGee – 2 Mar 2013
Figure this out someone. Father Gibney views Dan and Steve laid out head to foot and expects their bodies,unmarked, to be hauled out of the burning inn. Const. Dwyer (who put the boot into Ned) states to the commission that Steve and Dan were 6 metres apart (in different rooms?) With bullet wounds supposedly by police action. Dwyer viewed the bodies but did not have time to pull them out OR did Dwyer lie to the Commission seeking the reward for the Police? How can there be such disparity between two witnesses? Who do you believe?
Bravo! Ned Kelly
From: Dave Linehan – 15 Feb 2013
I am also of Irish descent and my ancestors were starved out of County Cork by the British and fled to the US. Little did I know that America never gained it’s independence and has been ruled over since it’s inception by the Freemason banker’s headquartered in the City of London to this day. I was a university professor and finally decided to leave the Nazi US ten years ago after being framed by the corrupt police and government for “killing” a m an who committed suicide after leaving a suicide note with the Miami Coroner’s Office blaming his own attorney for selling him out. Facts do not matter when money and power are at stake in the US. I come from a family of coward degenerates and have thought many times of changing my name. I do not deserve the name “Ned Kelly” but would like to change my name to his in honour of his legacy. I have fought back in every way possible, within the “law”, to clear my name and regain the money that the US government stole from me to no avail. Maybe I too will become a dead martyr. It’s better to die standing than to live on your knees. Would the Kelly family object to my request to use the name “Ned Kelly”? …Umm…
From: Adriana Gaspar – 28 Jan 2013
Hi there! I would like to know if Ned Kelly remains were buried with his green sash? Thank you. No
Relate to the Kelly Gang
From: Patricia Rogers – 24 Jan 2013
I wish to found out were i can the own book about the kelly gang please. Jump to our Books section
re: Another Skull Story
From: Sherallee Schubert – 24 Jan 2013
As Ellen says, part of Neds scull has been burried with him. That to me makes it all the more a mistery as to what has happened to his scull. Why would such a large piece be missing from it and so it is not complete? If it was used for a ‘paper weight’ why would it have been incomplete? If a study of his brain was done, I wonder if they really made a mess of his scull and therefor maybe parts of it were souveinered. On the show called ‘Neds Head’ they said that there were saw marks at the back of the neck vertibrae to indicate that they cut into the back of his scull. This I would have imagined would have made a mess of it. So that means that his scull would not have been kept intact at all. His jaw bone would not have been damaged when extracting the brain. What then has happened to that? If anyt hing was found it would be in pieces I would think and not as one. If the remains of his scull had been burried with him at the OMG, then another thought I had was maybe when Ned was re-burried at Pentridge, did the parts get mixed up as ‘scrap bones’ and just burried slap hazard like? Maybe mixed up with other prisoners? But when his head was used to make the death mask, was it still attached to his body? Or was it removed? Is that how it went missing if it were removed? The questions can go on for ages! I just want to see Ned complete thats all. So he can truely RIP and not in ‘pieces’. God Bless you Neddy. Skull…
re: Another Skull Story
From: Ellen Hollow – 23 Jan 2013
I can assure you VIFM did double check on all skulls presented. I can also assure you the Melbourne University also did two audits on the skulls in their custody, one early in the investigation and a second late last year when their was a suggestion that the Kelly skull was in their posession. The NZ skull was obviously not Ned’s skull. Photograpic evidence dismissed it. Ned’s has a fairly large piece from the base of the neck to cheek missing which was buried with him. I can varify this as I was witness, and have photographic evidence, to the transfer of custody of the remains. It’s the un-presented skull I’m interested in uncovering, namely the one Sir Colin Mackenzie took up with him to Canberra…
For Dear Ned
From: Lisa – 20 Jan 2013
On this very special day Ned has been returned to his beloved Kelly Country. His family have looked after him and have made such beautiful arrangements for his return home. He will be riding throughout the Strathbogies tonight. Rest In Peace dear brave Ned, you are loved and remembered always. 🙂 Well said Lisa…
From: Sherallee Schubert – 19 Jan 2013
At Last our dear Ned is at rest. Now we can only hope his scull is found to make him complete. I would love to have been at the funeral as I bet thousands of Ned lovers would, but glad to hear that the family gave him what Ned so badly wanted. Ned would be smiling from up above, really smiling. All Neds family and sympathisers must be so pleased that the mistery has been soved of where Neds reamains were and it was something I would never have thought would have happened ever. I was convinced that Ned would never be found. Let the 18th of Jan 2013 be a day of great importance, just as Nov 11 is, rememberance day for the Diggers and yes Ned as well! Skull…
re: Another Skull Story
From: Mick Fitzsimons – 19 Jan 2013
G’day Stinger, that’s a question that I have wondered about as to whether the VIPM did any checking on that skull in NZ. My guess too is that she’s a Nutbag, but you never know. All roads lead to Melbourne University…
Remembrance Day and Ned Kelly
From: Dave Miller – 18 Jan 2013
I was wondering if people realised the coincidence between Ned Kelly execution in Victoria and remembrance day. We all know Ned was executed on the 11th day of the 11th month in 1880. And we know this happened at 10:00am. We also know there was no such thing as daylight savings then. So what this means is we remember his death and give 2 minutes silence at 11th of November at 10:00am est. or 11am dst. REMBERANCE DAY. As i said 11:00am dst is the same as 10:00 est … that is the time he died. Has anyone realised that the anniversary of Ned’s execution is the same time we celebrate remembrance day. I like to remember Ned at this time … and i am so pleased Ned is being laid to rest with his mother. I have been a fan of Ned’s since i was 7 years old. I was in the cubs living in Victoria and there was a competition amongst all the districts in Victoria … all the cubs were involved. We had to wear a costume relating to the Kelly era. My father worked in a cardboard factory and so made an armour out of cardboard, painted it black … my armour looked like Ned’s. When the competition was held i came second out of all the cubs in Victoria. I was so proud won a book on Ned Kelly, sadly i don’t have that book anymore, but since then my hero has been Ned. When i was in year 10 at the north sunshine technical school, i had to make something to do with Ned Kelly in geography, i am not sure what Ned had to do with geography, but i received top marks by the teacher and he asked how i came up with the idea of making Ned’s armour out of cardboard and black shoe polish, so i told him about being in the cubs. And to make it so much sweeter, my fiancé the woman i am going to marry is descendant of Irish … her family name is Egan. Well that’s just a little i thought people would find of interest and remember Ned Kelly on remembrance day every year along with the fallen diggers.
Another Skull Story
From: Stinger Nettleton – 18 Jan 2013
On this, the day of his funeral in Wangaratta, I venture to again raise the issue of Ned Kelly’s Skull. On Monday, August 27, 2012, an article appeared on page 3 of the West Australian newspaper from its Wellington correspondent, headlined “Woman claims she has ‘Ned’s head’. Apparently a Ms Anna Hoffman, 74, a NZ resident of some notoriety, claims to have been given the skull by a security guard in Melbourne in 1980 and still has it in her possession. “I have treated it with respect, I haven’t lit candles in it or drunk red wine out of it or anything bohemian like that” she pleads. The article also alleges that this “discovery has raised the interest of the Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine, which matched Kelly’s remains to the DNA of a surviving relative”. It doesn’t reveal whether that interest has led to any further investigation –let alone testing – of the ‘Hoffman skull’. Anything further on this known to iron-outlaw? Or just another “nut-bag” job? RIP EK My money is on the nut-bag…
From: Richard Kostraby – 18 Jan 2013
How beautiful Ned will be buried next or near his family and beloved mother, what a journey it has been for the Kelly family who were bullied and picked on all the time. Would be honored to be at the funeral but i wish the family peace and closure, RIP Ned Kelly.
Gripe about Kelly artifacts
From: Sherallee Schubert – 16 Jan 2013
Firstly Brad I am sad to hear Joe’s grave has been vandalised in the past. I didnt know that. Now, I am going to have a gripe about Ned artifacts. I read somewhere about Neds target tree being found at Bullock creek. It was only part of the tree laying on the ground. I dont know when it was found but I think it was quite a few years ago but where is it now? If it is the tree then it would have been in the location of Dans Hut which I believe no one knows where it was for sure. Also, where is the trinkets that where found at the dig site at Glenrowan? Are they being kept until they build the new Kelly information centre? I heard they were thinking about building it on the Anne Jones site! God forbid if they do that, that is sacred! Build a replica of Anne Jones Inn or a ficsard but not for the public to tramp through, just keep it as the railway station is, not to be accessable. I am still annoyed that Joes armour can be in private hands and is hidden away from the world. Thats not fair! And another question remains, there were suppose to be redundant pieces of armour found in caves at beecworth. Where are they now? Have I griped enough? When they were stupid enough to lose Neds rifle that it was it for me! The Kelly hut site at Greta … I could go on and on…
Ned is going home
From: Lisa – 16 Jan 2013
Wow! This is brilliant news for dear Ned. A huge thank you to the Kelly family for making Ned’s wish come true. I hope everything goes perfectly for Ned and his family this weekend. We will be thinking of him. Rest In Peace dear brave Ned. You are loved and remembered forever.
re. The paupers call me ‘Your Majesty’ but I’ll settle for sir! Thanks…
From: Sherallee Schubert – 14 Jan 2013
Dam Gremlins! I will try to post this again! In anwer to Brian Quinn, do you mean the police camp or the Kelly camp at Bullock creek? The police camp has been found or Ian Jones and his cronies are pretty sure they have found the place. Going by the descriptions of the photos and the statements made by Constable McKintire. When you go to Stringybark creek there is a well made track to the site and a bourd with description of what happened and photos. The site has been heavily mined and logged and and has suffered bushfires since 1878. The soil is all that is left of what was there when Ned trod his larrikin boots on it! And even that has been dug great big holes. But it is amazing to visit and yo can almost see Ned and the boys hiding in the trees. Dont forget 3 coppers died here though so a little respect would not go astray.
P.S. Ned’s Burial
I forgot to mention this before but does anyone know if Ned has been layed to rest yet? I know its none of our busness but I cant help but want to know where he will be burried. I wish he could be burried where he wanted with his family at Greta, surely a vandal proof grave could be made for him so us Kelly lovers can pay our respects. Joes grave is not vandalised. If anything it is probably the most visited grave from people not even related to him and the most decorated grave in over the longest period of time ever! After all this time in not knowing where the most famous Australian bush ranger remains have been and now he has been found I would hate him to be ‘hidden away’. My guess is that he will be burried at the old Kelly property at 11 mile creek. Thats where Annie is burried so they say. Unfortunately, Joe’s grave has been vandalised in the past…
From: Sherallee Schubert – 8 Jan 2013
I have posted stuff on here and am still waiting to see them so Brad, wake up! Have you been on holiday? Want to ask anyone if they can tell me is Arron Sherrits grave in the cemetary easy to find? I have the plot number but dont know if its visable. Also, is the site of his hut sign posted as well as the Byrnes hut site and Anton Wicks? Are the police caves easy to find and can they be accessed? Anyone got any pics would be great if you could put them on here. Thanks. Last email I got from you was dated 7th April 2012 so it looks like the gremlins may have stolen your other posts!
Scanlon and Lonigan
From: Alan Crichton – 1 Jan 2013
G’day Mr Webb, sorry i ain’t writ for a while but i’s been busy with stuff. When Ned took the blame for killing those three troopers up in the Wombat, i believe he was telling the truth;he did. When Doc Reynolds examined both Lonigan and Scanlon, he discovered that they each had four bullet wounds. When my ol mate Mac writes in his narrative that he had possession of quartered bullets, i thought he was just talking about Lonigan, but when i had another read of his little story, he tells us that he had several quartered bullets taken from both Lonigan and Scanlon. I’ve always thought that Scanlon was deliverd the same fate as Lonigan, and that was from a single shot loaded with a quartered bullet and fired from the same weapon. Lonigan was shot from a distance of 40 yards and his wounds could have on ly been inflicted whilst facing Ned Kelly and not running away from him, looking over his shoulder or not, as Mac assumed. Scanlon was shot from a distance of 30 yards according to Mac, on his knees and scrambling to take control of the Spencer. From where Ned Kelly was now positioned at the crossed logs, the positioning of Scanlon’s wounds, and not forgetting that Mac saw a large spot of blood appear when Scanlon was shot under the right arm simultaneously with hearing a shot fired by Ned Kelly, i believe it was Ned and no others who delivered the fatal shots to all three troopers. There has been speculation that Ned was taking the blame himself to shield the others, but from what i can see, he was simply telling the truth. Always tell the truth (unless you’re a good liar)…
The paupers call me ‘Your Majesty’ but I’ll settle for sir! Thanks…
From: Brian Quinn – 1 Dec 2012
What a great forum. I’m hoping to learn much more. Has anything been conclusive about the exact location of the Stringybark Creek camp?
The People Speak: Ned Kelly
From: Lisa – 25 Nov 2012
A show called The People Speak will air on Foxtel’s History Channel on Sunday 2nd December at 7.30pm which has well known Australians reading from letters, speeches etc. from Australian History and Ned’s Jerilderie Letter is one of them, which Tex Perkins will read from. John Jarratt is one of the other speakers and it’s a shame they didn’t get him to read it, that would have been a good coincidence as he portrayed Ned so well in The Last Outlaw.
Reg Livermore’s Rock Opera
From: Rosie – 22 Nov 2012
My apologies if this has been mentioned before but I couldn’t find it under music. I recently purchased Reg Livermore’s Rock Opera “Ned Kelly’ (vinyl – 1974) and then bought the John Jarrett/Ned Kelly miniseries which I have just re-watched. Very impressive! I am still listening to the album intently – going through the lyrics which are inserted. The album cover notes are not brilliant but it’s stars are: Jon English – Ned Kelly, Janice Slater – Ma Kelly, Reg Livermore – Sargeant Hare, Arthur Dignam – Constable Fitzpatrick. Kelly Gang – John Paul Young, Trevor White and Peter Chambers. You can find all the songs here. Interesting that the cast is largely made up of those who appeared in “Jesus Christ Superstar” – 1972. Also interesting, but not surprising, is that many of the stars in the John Jarratt miniseries were also in “Against The Wind”. You can find a write up on Reg’s piece in our Theatre section
Talkin’ Bout Ned
From: Lola Rowe – 11 Nov 2012
Brad, best of luck for your night at Williamstown. Noeleen and I are in Ballyvaughan on Galway Bay. In a B&B next to a little shop ‘Quinns’ craft shop. Would like to be sharing the night with our friends.
11th November 2012
From: Lisa – 11 Nov 2012
Rest In Peace dear brave Ned, you will never ever be forgotten.
re. Constable Arthur
From: Alan Crichton – 5 Nov 2012
Hi Lisa and Sharon, I realise that you had both been waiting for the information on Constable Arthur, but i had to wait almost 2 months for the Police Historical Unit to find the information on this officer. I know that this subject was brought up on the Ned Kelly Forum, but in all honesty, i could not find the thread it was brought up on after making several midnight attempts. I could have in hindsight, started a new thread, but knowing you are both keen followers of Ironoutlaw and our friends at The Ned Kelly Forum, it mattered nought where you read the information as we are all keen enthusiasts, and “hopingly” not just glory seekers, when it comes to the incredible story of Ned Kelly. Again I must thank the efforts of the Victorian Police Historical Unit for this “free” information.
re: Joe’s poetry
From: Lisa – 29 Oct 2012
There is a great old Kelly Gang book called ‘Ned Kelly After A Century Of Acrimony’ by John Meredith and Bill Scott which has a poem section in it that includes the words to Stringybark Creek, Euroa, Jerilderie and The Bold Kelly Gang which are poems all credited to Joe. You can usually find good second hand copies of this book on eBay.
Tom Lloyd decendant
From: Russell Lloyd – 27 Oct 2012
Kia ora, Hello, I’m Russell Lloyd, Owen Lloyd’s youngest son, who is Ethel Gertrude Lloyd and ‘Jumbo’ Lloyd’s only son, decendant of Tom Lloyd (if i’m correct). I’m looking to find some of my cusins on here, please feel free to make the connection!
From: Nathan Milne – 27 Oct 2012
Hi there. Big fan of the website. Have been a fan since I was ten. Anyway, I am doing a project about the complete written works of Ned Kelly (apart from the Cameron and Jerilderie letters), and I was thinking of including text written by the other members of the Kelly gang as well. And as I hear that Joe Byrne was a bit of a bush poet, I was wondering if you happen to know if any other verses he wrote managed to survive during the years, or if the “My name is Ned Kelly” ballad is the only surviving piece to this day. Thank you for your time. And keep up the good work with this website.
Ned is going home!
From: Lisa – 27 Oct 2012
This is brilliant news for dear Ned! Finally he will be returned to his beloved Kelly Country. A big thank you to Ned’s family for fighting for him and making his wish come true.May he roam the hills of Greta forever.
From: Arick Mittler – 26 Oct 2012
Here is picture of me with my first Ned Kelly tattoo. I’m wearing my homemade helmet and my Ned Kelly shirt. I just discovered your website and enjoy it very much. Cheers! Welcome to the family!
Art show at the Kelly House, Beveridge
From: Sharon Consiglio – 20 Oct 2012
A local resident and accomplished artist, is show casing her Kelly works at the Kelly House in Beveridge on 24 November per the attached flyer. Would you please post this on your site for all interested Kelly fans who may be interested. All funds raised from the sales of these paintings, will go to the local Beveridge Primary School for new play equipment. Many thanks. Consider it posted!
From: Alan Crichton – 25 Oct 2012
When Ned Kelly was hogtied and escorted to Wangaratta after his encounter with Constable Hall on Thursday the 20th April 1871, it was a Constable Arthur that Ned referred to in the Jeriderie Letter who laughed at Constable Hall’s cowardice in wanting Ned Kelly to be tied. Ned states…”Next morning i was handcuffed a rope tied from them to my legs and to the seat of the cart and taken to Wangaratta Hall was frightened i would throw him out of the cart so he tied me while Constable Arthur laughed at his cowardice for it was he who escorted me and Hall to Wangaratta.” Now for some reason i assumed that the Constable Arthur Ned was referring to was Constable James Murdoch Arthur who was at the Glenrowan siege, but of course James would have been too young, as he was born in 1854. Now there was also a Constable William Arthur in the Victori a Police, but he didn’t join the force until 5th May 1876. So who the blazes is this Constable Arthur Ned is talking of in the Jerilderie Letter?
After asking assistance from the Victoria Police Museum some six weeks ago, today i received the full Police record of our Constable Arthur. Constable William Arthur…Birth July 1841..Born in Scotland…appointed on 17th November….resigned from Force 24th August 1892 holding rank of Senior Constable. It seems that Constable Arthur was stationed at Kyneton in 1865 and was reprimanded by Sgt Babington for going A.W.O.L. and was fined two and sixpence. Still at Kyneton in 1867, he again goes A.W.O.L and gets fined another two and sixpence. We next find Arthur at Wangaratta in 1868 where this time he is fined five bob for refusing to groom the station’s cart horse. We still find Arthur at Wangaratta in March of 1873 but this time he’s fined for being under the influence of intoxicating liquor and cops another five bob. So i believe we have now found the Arthur Ned is referring to in the Jeriderie Letter, thanks to the Victoria Police Museum. It seems the grog got the better of poor William, and through poor health resigned in 1892.
The Girl Who Loved Ned Kelly
From: Paul O’Keefe – 31 Aug 2012
Hi Everyone, my next lecture ‘The Girl Who Loved Ned Kelly’ is on Thursday 13th September from 6pm at the Windsor Library in Sydney. It’s a free event, but bookings are essential. For further details click here. Cheers. Paul O’Keefe. This is a not-to-miss FREE event people so book early!
Is it true that Ned’s finally getting his final wish fulfilled?
From: Kev – 31 Aug 2012
I just found out from a mate of mine that Ned’s family is finally getting Ned to grant him his final wish …. is this true as if it is, it’s about bloody time! Ned should be finally able to rest in peace.
Ellen: a woman of spirit
From: Lisa – 21 Aug 2012
Wow what a book and what a woman! A big thank you to Noelene Allen for writing this fantastic book about the amazing Mrs Kelly. I urge everyone to read it. The photographs in this book are really great too. Along with everything else the Kelly’s are a great looking family, the boys all handsome and the girls all pretty, it is the greatest shame that their lives were ruined by such devastating events. This book really affected me, I felt so sad after I finished reading it. After being interested in Ned, Joe, Dan and Steve for so long and getting to read about their lives and those of the other people in the Kelly story, you get to feel close to them. To see the events of Mrs Kelly’s life all put together was very emotional to read. It was just loss after loss for Mrs Kelly and her family. Any one of the great losses she had would have been more than enough for someone to deal with in their lifetime, but all of hers (losing so many of her children, grandchildren, husbands and of course her disgraceful prison sentence) were an unbelievable amount for a single lifetime. If you didn’t know it was true it would be hard to believe it was possible. I don’t know how she and her family kept going, I really don’t. Incredibly strong people to say the least. Reading about losing Annie (who was just a girl herself) and her own little girls, then for Maggie and Kate to pass so young after all they went through was extremely unfair, and of course losing Ned and Dan the way they did too.
Far too young for all of them and many others in their family over the years. After Ned, Maggie is my favourite person in the Kelly story and it was awful to read about her eldest daughter Ellen taking her own life (most especially so young). Reading the part of the letter she wrote to her brother James where she mentions being without her best friend (their Mother Maggie) was terrible, I felt so sad for that little girl. Alan Crichton’s wonderful poem about Mrs Kelly and Ned was hard to read also. I couldn’t even imagine the agony Mrs Kelly must have felt being in the same gaol as Ned and knowing what was to come, here is her Ned, her little boy, and she was unable to stop it. That very scene in The Last Outlaw when Ned turns and sees his little Mum standing there breaks my heart every time I watch it. I can only hope very, very much that they all have the great happiness together in Heaven, that they all should of had so very, very much more of on earth.
Beechworth Ned Kelly Weekend
From: Lisa – 6 Aug 2012
Hi Brad, I just wanted to write and say how great is was to say hello to you at the NKW. The weekend was fantastic, we really loved it! I was surprised/disappointed though that it was so quiet as far as the crowds. It was disappointing also that a couple of events were cancelled or combined due to ‘lack of interest’ was the reason given (?) I can’t understand too why the special Ned tours of the gaol (except for one each day at odd times) were not running all throughout the weekend? But we got to meet Noelene Allen (what a lovely lady) and bought a copy of her great looking book about Mrs Kelly which I’m about to start reading, also the book launch with Paul Terry and Ian Jones (who were both really nice) was wonderful, I’m really looking forward to reading that too. Plus it was brilliant to see Ned’s belt and bullets there on display! On Sunday we went out to Greta, Benalla and Glenrowan, it was very lovely and quiet out at all places as we went nice and early. Anyway it was really good to see you there Brad, hopefully next years NKW will be much more crowded. Best wishes! They’ll never get big number back at the NKW until they remove the amateurs and actually pay for professionals to organise the events…
Ellen Kelly Book
From: Robert Campbell – 21 Jul 2012
Brilliant cover mate on the Ellen Book. WELL DONE! I’ll be there at the launch and get a copy for my collection. Can’t wait… All welcome to Noelene’s launch on Tuesday 31st July from 10am in the MacKillop Room at St Francis Church, Melbourne
re. New Look IronOutlaw.com
From: Lola Rowe – 20 Jul 2012
Congratulations Brad a great heading for your “Ironoutlawdotcom” A moving film showing the history as it unfolded, it couldn’t look, better is eye catching, I wanted more in slow motion! Lola, the beauty of the home page animation is that it is on a continuous loop so if you miss it first time around it will be back again very soon!
Ned Kelly ‘Theme Park’? Nooo!
From: Lisa – 19 Jul 2012
Wangaratta Council have backed the idea for a Ned Kelly Centre at Glenrowan. I remember years ago when the idea of the Interpretive Centre was talked about, alot of people (including me) were worried about such a thing being built on part of the siege site itself. I really hope that doesn’t happen. The siege site is such an important place, it would be terrible to have even more buildings built so close to the actual site of the Glenrowan Inn etc. I would hate to see Glenrowan turned into a total ‘theme park’. It would be much better if they tore down that extremely crass ‘animatronic show’ and built a wonderful big Kelly Gang museum there instead. I don’t think it would be a good thing at all to have such a place built so close to the siege site, the risk of ruining the place is way too high. There is a kind of peaceful feeling as you walk around at the siege site and think about the boys, I would hate to see that gone forever.
From: Greg – 18 Jul 2012
Thanks Brad, I am one of probably a large number of people, who visit the site just to read the updates and feedback, but rarely, if ever become involved. I can verify that I am distantly related to the Kelly’s. Ned, Dan and siblings are my second cousins 3X removed. I realise it is distant but appreciate the connection. Obviously I hold a keen interest in the history and thank you for your efforts to make information available to all and sundry. About to purchase an iPad to download your pictorial history. Glad to have you on board
From: Alan Crichton – 16 Jul 2012
Well, you’ve done it again Mr Webb. You’ve now taken a great Kelly site to even greater heights. The front page of Australian IronOutlaw.com is a history lesson in itself. Buggered if i know how you did it, or when, but it’s totally blown me away. Congratulations!! Well, the old girl is now 17 years old so I thought I should smarten her up a bit ready for her 18th birthday early next year. And I also wanted to remind the punters out there we are still the NUMBER ONE Ned Kelly web site in the world!
New Look IronOutlaw.com
From: Lisa – 15 Jul 2012
Hi Brad, I just wanted to write and say how wonderful the new look of the IronOutlaw home page is. The black and white style is great and the pictures changing at the top of the page is terrific.Very nice.
Ned Kelly: A Pictorial History
From: A N Baron – 1 Jul 2012
Congratulations on this wonderful achievement, Brad. Ned Kelly: A Pictorial History is one of THE MUST HAVE works on Ned Kelly. Kelly enthusiasts, do yourself a huge favour. A N Baron (author, Blood in the Dust). Thanks for the support. It’s now available worldwide for only $5.99AUD (or its equivalent)!
re. Give Ned to his family for a decent burial and grant him his dying wish!
From: Lisa – 1 Jul 2012
What this ‘Pentridge Village developer Leigh Chiavaroli’ is trying to do is nothing but sickening. I am disgusted. How can people be so heartless and greedy. I have read where this ‘person’ has said he is ‘the rightful owner of Ned’, NO ONE is the rightful owner of Ned but Ned himself. How dare this jerk be interfering with Ned’s family finally being able to fulfill his final wish. It is heartbreaking that even still to this day that Ned cannot be left alone. That heartless,greedy idiot developer should be made to stop and think for one minute of the unbelievable bravery shown by Ned, to of even had to think (at the age of just 25) about his final wishes. Any decent person after thinking of that would never stand in the way of this young man’s wish. Leave Ned alone! Return him to his family so they can at last be allowed to look after him. Sounds like smoke and mirrors on the developer’s behalf. Doubt this will have any legs within the Victorian Government…
28th June 1880
From: Lisa – 28 Jun 2012
132nd anniversary of what might have been. The Republic Of North East Victoria. Long may they reign the Kelly’s, Byrne and Hart.
Give Ned to his family for a decent burial and grant him his dying wish!
From: Kevin Butler – 28 Jun 2012
At this point in time, I’m currently in Thailand but I keep hearing about the ar#ehole developer that are trying to stop Ned’s family bury him, as he wants to use Ned as a display. What would happen if we dug one of this maggot’s dead rellies up and had them on display? He wouldn’t like it at all! Ned’s been through a lot of bullsh#t as it is and one of his dying wishes is to be buried in Greta along side his family members but as far as I’m concerned, this ar#ehole developer doesn’t give a sh#t about Ned’s wishes as he is a dollar hungry turd. Please give Ned back to his family so they can give him a decent burial and let the poor bugger rest in peace! If Ned was alive, he’d punch this wanker’s lights out! I was also wondering if we can get a petition or something going to say to the devolper to f#ck off and give Ned back to his family. Them there are fighting words…
133 years ago
From: Sherallee Schubert – 27 Jun 2012
133 years ago today poor Joe had not long died and Ned was laying wounded in the railway station. Steve and Dans bodies burnt beyond recognision. Rest in piece Joe, Steve and Dan. And poor ol’ Martin Cherry and Jack Jones. What a disasterous day in our history. 132…
From: Lisa – 18 May 2012
I recently read the new book Glenrowan by Ian Shaw and found it to be pretty good.There are some silly (very avoidable) mistakes with some names,places & dates being wrong (eg.the day & date of the Euroa bank robbery),and the author did just skim over the events before & after Glenrowan,but I thought the write up on the siege was very good reading.Parts of the siege are of course heartbreaking to read,and I found it especially interesting that the author specifically says that Dan & Steve took laudanum.When I first read about this book I thought it sounded like it would be anti Ned for sure,but it isn’t at all.The author sounds very sympathetic towards Ned & the boys and shows how disgraceful most of the police were,especially that lying psycho Steele.Another little part I liked was where he mentioned the boys nicknames as Ned (Captain),D an (Sneak),Steve (Revenge) & Joe (Moonlight),though I remember reading previously in other papers that Joe’s nickname was Sugar.Though I wouldn’t say that Glenrowan is one of the very best Kelly Gang books around,I would recommend that it is definitely worth a read and worth owning. Interested to see if it rips off any content from Judith Douthie’s book…
Melbourne Herald Special Edition Headline: Capture of the Kelly Gang
From: Bill Hadden – 13 May 2012
Hi I have in my posetion a framed melbourne Herald Oroginal, abnd a good read, A blow by blow description of Neds capture, I has a brass plate with 2 brass nails and reads, The Kelly Gang on the bottom of the frame. I have not seen or heard of any surviving and I have not heard of any copys at any of the State Librarys?… I think this would be a very important piece of Australiana. Rgards Bill. Well written (or should I say ‘wel ritten’)…
What year was Ned Kelly born?
From: Carla Roocke – 10 May 2012
Hi i’m Carla i’m in year 9 at booleroo centre district school and i’m studying Ned Kelly. I am trying to find out what year he was born and some websites and books say 1854 and others say he was born in 1855. Which one is the right one? Well, if you don’t believe in seances then your best bet is June 1855
From: Grace Surace – 8 May 2012
What is wrong with this government. Oh I know, let me see, Oh i see now, we are not talking about the CASINO. For if we were then the government would not at all hesitate to spend all of our money on keeping it clean and keeping it up todate with all the latest money wasting games. Get with it Government… History History History….its remains known to all if its treated with respect… I know that if we all got together to give the historical home a facelift then it could become a famous tourist place… Have the government not thought of that…. of course not they are too busy taking away from education and hospitals rather than looking after all that truley matters…. Im so annoyed with this not being treated with the utmost respect especially if people are actually forgetting about why Ned Kelly was the way he was… Mayby we should take a leaflet out of his booklet and realize why he was fighting….The real outlaws were the police, they overstepped the line with their authority. They should have been punished, seems history is still repeating with unlawful authorities still running the country….What are we going to do about it?
Ned Kelly rides again – on my iPad!
From: Tom Winters – 4 May 2012
Thankyou, thankyou and another thankyou! I downloaded your Ned Kelly: A Pictorial History from the iTunes Bookstore last night and was planning on reading it this morning over breakfast. But silly me just had to have a quick peak before bed and next thing I knew it was nealy 3am in the morning! The mix of video, voice over, interactive images and text is quite amazing. This is the future and it’s here right now – as long as you own an iPad which luckily I do! I’m about to email a friend of mine in the US to tell him about the iBook as he is a Ned Kelly nut too but before I do I was wondering how can he buy it as he won’t be able to access the Australian iTunes Bookstore? Thanks for the feedback. The iBook is available on Apple’s iTunes Bookstores in the Australia, USA, Canada, UK, Ireland, and France for $5.99AUD or it’s equivalent.
Original Beechworth Court Documents on Ned for Sale
From: Scot McPhie – 29 Apr 2012
Just saw this on the ABC news web site – Ned Kelly Court Documents To Be Auctioned – anyone going to stump up the cash for it?
re. If You Could Change History?
From: Alan Crichton – 28 Apr 2012
Hi Lisa, there’s no denying you are a passionate sympathiser. I still believe that the whole scenario of the Fitzpatrick incident was one big set up. The spiking of Ned’s drink in Benalla, right up to the incident in the Kelly hut. I believe that Brooke-Smith and Whelan had used Fitzpatrick to stir the pot. I do not believe Fitzpatrick was the sharpest knife in the drawer, and both the above mentioned were aware of this. To have Fitzpatrick receive a small injury to his wrist from a scuffle with Daniel was a gift sent from heaven. If this incident did not put the Kellys’ under the hammer, then it would be just a matter of time before another incident would be concocted. At Ellen Kelly’s trial in Beechworth, Judge Redmond Barry has been reported to have stated that if Ned were there he would give him 15 years. This s ays it all. What a disgaceful and unlawfull comment to be made by a Supreme Court Judge. No matter what, the Kellys’ were to be driven out of Victoria at any cost. A stray piece of lead had found its mark at Stringybark Creek, and i’m sorry to say, the rest is history.
re. If You Could Change History?
From: Mick Fitzsimons – 24 Apr 2012
Robert Graham would never have got drunk and gone to the Kelly homestead without a warrant. End of story. For me, Ned to have had a fair trial, be acquitted and run for parliament.
If You Could Change History?
From: Lisa – 23 Apr 2012
I really liked the question asked by Ironoutlaw on the Facebook page asking to vote for which part of the Kelly Gang history would you change if you could? I would definitely vote for the first one – ‘Stop Fitzpatrick riding to Ellen’s house to arrest Dan?’ – It always comes back to that day as being the beginning of the end for pretty much everyone involved in the whole Kelly Gang story, Ned & Mrs Kelly being just two who said so themselves. It really is amazing that just one incident & one person on one day could alter/destroy the lives of so many people and their families. Some people might say that if it wasn’t Fitzpatrick then it would have just been someone else on another day, but I don’t believe so.With Fitzpatrick being the horrible type of person he was, it is just so extremely unlucky ( to say the very least) that he ever entered the Police force and that he ever entered North East Victoria. If Robert Graham (for example) was the policeman out at the Kelly house that day, I believe we would never have heard of the Kelly Gang. As much as I love Ned & reading about him and the boys, I would give up ever having known about them in a second if it meant them being able to have the chance to live normal lives and not have to go through what they did. Well said…
re. Madam Tussauds Ned Kelly
From: Mick Fitzsimons – 19 Apr 2012
Hair beard and moustache look good, but facial features look like there is a bit to be desired. I’ve been to Madame Tussauds’ in London and the detail was incredible, so hopefully Ned will be better in person, so to speak.
Madam Tussauds Ned Kelly
From: Lisa – 07 Apr 2012
A waxwork of Ned is featured at the new Madame Tussauds museum (see YouTube video here) which has just opened in Sydney. I haven’t been able to find a photo of Ned’s waxwork yet and they unfortunately didn’t show him on the news stories on tv, but going by how incredibly real the other waxworks looked, it should be a very good likeness of Ned. The jury is out on this one.
Glenrowan by Ian W Shaw
From: Mark Perry – 15 Apr 2012
Hi Brad. Very surprised there isn’t anything on Iron Outlaw yet regarding the new Kelly book: “Glenrowan”. By Ian W. Shaw. (publisher: Pan McMillan. Paperback.) I would be very interested to hear what other visitors to this site think of it. I’m part way through and so far, it seems reasonably sound and worthy of addition to the Kelly bookshelf apart from a few dumb arse mistakes. (eg: Charles Tettleton, Sherritt being buried in Benalla, Sherritt spelt with only one L etc…) It does make you see some of the Police as a bit more human apart from the freaks such as Steele that are beyond redemption. One thing that iritates me though (and you are the person to maybe whinge to about this as you are a graphic designer) I am yet to come across cover art on a Kelly book that blows me away. So many of them are so pedestrian and bland and this new one does not buck that trend in my opinion unfortunately. Anyway, that’s me done. Would be good to hear feedback on this. Thanks. Mark (and PanMcMillan if your’re watching), I’m surprised too as I thought we’d be one of the first to receive a reviewer’s copy for our Book section. But obviously our parcel was lost in the mail. I’m more interested to see if the content mirrors the efforts of Judith Douthie’s book ‘I Was At The Kelly Gang Round-Up’, so anyone who has read both please send us a review and we’ll post it on the site.
From: Lisa – 07 Apr 2012
There is a Herald-Sun report now that the developer of the former Pentridge Gaol wants to put in a claim for Ned. What would make someone even think of doing something so cruel? It sounds like this person could try and make it even harder for Ned’s family. When are people going to finally let this dear man rest in peace? This is disgraceful.I hope very much that the ‘claims’ of this developer go nowhere.It is only right and proper that Ned finally be allowed to go back to his family and his Kelly Country, and no one should be allowed to interfere with that.
Ned Kelly’s remains
From: Sherallee Schubert – 7 Apr 2012
How dare the developers of the Pentridge gaol even think about keeping Neds remains! That is cruel and they have no right to deprive the family of laying Ned to rest. How can just anyone say they have ownership of someones body or remains! I hope these selfish people think about what they are doing and do the right thing and give Ned to his relatives. What would they do with them, put them on display and charge people to look at them! How sick. And if they did anyone that went to have a look should be ashamed of themselves. Give Ned back!
re. ‘Crying A Go’ has consequence
From: Lisa – 7 Apr 2012
To Mick Fitzsimmons. Thank you for your very condescending and ignorant comments. They gave me a good laugh. Why am I not surprised at all that you posted here in defence of the KC forum admin. I think my reply to Alan’s original Cry A Go post must be ‘too far over the head and in depth’ for you and the cowardly KC admin (who still won’t reveal who they are and continues to hide behind a faceless email address). Surprisingly, they have since reactivated my account (is this some pathetic attempt to try and cover themselves?). If either you or KC2000 (if you are seperate entities as we have no idea) bothered reading my post I said, ‘I definitely agree with Alan, thank goodness for IronOutlaw’. Meaning I agree that I like IronOutlaw. How hard is that to understand? Very hard it seems for certain people. If I meant I agreed ‘stuff them all’ then I would have said so. But I didn’t. And how am I ‘Trying to stop others from following topics you may not understand’? How am I making ‘false claims’? What would you know about it? This is all just completely laughable. The fact that you and the KC forum admin have read things the way YOU both want them to say and NOT what was actually said is a joke. And this is coming from supposed adults. Think what you want Mick Fitzsimmons, the comments from people like you and the KC forum admin mean zero to me. You quote my words of ‘mean, childish behaviour’, well I quote them right back at you and your extremely ignorant and condescending post. I will have no more of this ridiculous subject which was started by the behaviour of a petty old liar who runs the KC forum (and that is not abuse, that is fact). Ned, Joe, Dan and Steve are all that matter here, not this rubbish. So don’t comment on things you know nothing about Mick Fitzsimmons. Mind your own business. I declare this subject is now closed…
re. ‘Crying A Go’ has consequence
From: Sharon Hollingsworth – 7 Apr 2012
It has been many years since I have written in to Ironoutlaw feedback, but I just had to weigh in on the Lisa vs KC2000 forum debacle. If anyone has a right to say something about this whole thing it is me! I was once a very prolific member at that forum for quite a few years and had a high profile departure a couple of years back with some labeling me as petty and childish, too. Only those closest to me know the full story behind the departure (and they stopped posting there, too, in solidarity with me), but I am not about to kick over that can of worms here and give all the sordid details. Maybe if I did those haters would gain a bit of much-needed understanding. Remember that all is not as it seems at times! Suffice it to say that I don’t blame Lisa one iota for not ever bothering to get involved there. In defense of the forum itself, though, I do have to say that it would have been quite a different (and far more wonderful) experience all the way around with the proper moderators in place. With all that said, I have always looked forward to reading Lisa’s feedback here at Ironoutlaw. She is very thoughtful and intelligent, and cares deeply for Ned and the boys. She is like a shining beacon. She has probably more knowledge about the gang in her little finger than some of the more outspoken ones in the Kelly world have in their whole bodies! (or can ever wish to have!) I hope she will continue to keep posting here. It would be a shame for her to go quiet due to bashing by those who may not have the whole story and should reserve judgement until they do. As I said in the proceeding paragraph, all is not as it seems at times! Lisa, take it from me: you are a classy lady, hold your head high and stay the course, you do Ned and the gang proud!
re. ‘Crying A Go’ has consequences
From: Mick Fitzsimons – 6 Apr 2012
Brad I do not speak for KC2000, I speak for myself as a member of that forum only. I am not privy to any correspondence between Lisa and that forum’s administrator, though I’m sure you would not take lightly if someone posted the same thing about Ironoutlaw on another website. As you state, KC2000 is probably a ‘server side open forum’ and would be subjected to spammers trying to sign up, so has to periodically cleaned out, as this has happened on other forums I have been a member of. Some have even closed because of the amount of work involved in keeping them spam free. Everything I have submitted to your forum has been through the proper process and at no time have I ever submitted anything that falls into the three categories you mention. In the last one you rejected I agreed with Lisa on your current forum structure and I said I thought Facebook was killing the forum, because since Ironoutlaw went to Facebook, there has been little movement here. I believe in fairness to all and if I see a something I believe is unfair or unjustified I will speak out. Maybe you should visit KC2000 Brad, as I’m sure you would’ve found the saga on determining the true and correct site of the shootings at Stringbark Creek fascinating. (Note: This email originally went into the server side spam box as the anti-spam code was incorrectly entered. The original comments have now been reinstated – although, to be honest with you, it could have been filed under the ‘science fiction’ category…)
re. ‘Crying A Go’ has consequences
From: Mick Fitzsimons – 6 Apr 2012
G’day Lisa, I think you explained the reason yourself by “agreeing with Alan”, meaning that you were also knocking the other website along with the fact that as a member you have never posted there. Alan’s problem was difficulty in signing in. This happened to many regulars and had that old mule skinner waited possibly one more day, everything would have worked out ok. You make a lot of false claims about the KC Forum and administrators, just to try and poison the minds of other people and to me, this is really being petty. KC2000 has been a great forum, full of friendly knowledgeable people and far more is discussed and debated than any other Kelly Forum on the web. The administrator has from time to time deleted unused accounts, so you are not the first. At times the discussions are too far over the head and in depth for a lot of readers and they feel they have nothing to contribute, as it is out of their depth, so don’t. This is a shame as everyone can have an opinion or point of view. Maybe you fit into this category Lisa and that is why you have not posted there for years. To disassociate yourself from any forum is only depriving yourself of what research is shared, announced or theories tossed around as no one forum can cover it all. There are different types of forums and they all have their place. This one Brad decides whether he will post something that has been submitted. There are others where your posting is put up straight away if you are a member. I submitted a post here after your reply to Alan’s ‘Cry a Go’ and in part it was agreeing with you on this type of format rather than Facebook. It was not put up on this website (as with several others over the years) and this one may not either, as I say it as I see it. I’ve had my run-ins with Brad and that hasn’t stopped me from coming to this website. Brad in fact has been very helpful at times and I believe that is what it’s all really about, helping each other to understand and explore all things Ned. Trying to stop others from following topics you may not understand (quoting your own w ords and re-punctuated), “…is really laughable, mean, childish behaviour.” Mick, if you do speak for KC2000 then it seems you owe Lisa an apology based on the obtrusive emails she has received from the site’s coordinators after she responded to one of their correspondences by saying they were ‘as mean as Whitty’. I’d post them here except they would breech our prime directives (which are not dissimilar to RoboCop’s) P.S. This is a feedback page embedded into a client side html web folder NOT a server side open forum blog so I do decide what gets cut and pasted based on four strict principles – (i) it’s not abusive towards any individual; (ii) it doesn’t promote an individual or organisation that is involved in any scrupulous activity; (iii) it doesn’t include profanity (due to the high number of school age children who regularly read the site); and (iv) -classified-; . If some of your previous post were rejected then it’s quite possible they fell into an above mentioned category or my service provider simply saw it as spam and sent it straight to the trash…
‘Crying A Go’ has consequences
From: Lisa – 04 Apr 2012
Although I have never posted there I have been a member of the KC Forum for the last few years, and like to read the posts & look out for any Ned news etc. Plus I thought it was (as it seems to constantly claim to be) a friendly community for people interested in the boys. In recent days I could not log onto my account & today wrote to the administrator to ask why. I received an email which simply had a copy of my post here on IronOutlaw from a couple of months ago (re.Cry A Go) where I agreed with Alan that it was thank goodness for the IronOutlaw website. It seems you are not allowed to like or visit other Kelly Gang websites if you are a member of the KC Forum, even though the administrator there obviously visits IronOutlaw himself. What a hypocrite. In my post I said nothing bad at all about his website, I just agreed with Alan in thanking Brad for IronOutlaw. I just cannot believe the rudeness and petty behaviour of this person, who did not even have the decency to explain to me what I supposedly did wrong to be expelled from his precious website. It is a joke that this person talks of wanting people to join in the forum & have their say,then turns around and casts people out for doing so and especially (shock horror) on another website.Practically every member on that forum visits other Kelly Gang websites so I guess the whole lot will be expelled too.This person then posted on his forum that he oftens has a clean out deleting old accounts if they are’useless or don’t contribute.’ What a lie this is.My account has been left there without me having to ever post for years.Yet it is suddenly deleted with an email showing me the reason why.This person is just trying to cover themselves for deleting the accounts of people who dare to visit & enjoy other Kelly Gang websites.This is really laughable,mean,ch ildish behaviour.This person reminds me of Whitty for some reason now.Pathetic. Never actually visited the KC site myself as it’s just part of the flotsam and jetsam left behind in the wake of the mighty S.S. IronOutlaw…
Ned Kelly’s Remains
From: Steve Etches – 17 Mar 2012
Hello my name is Steve, I am just wondering if the remains of Ned Kelly finally been given over to his family and been laid to rest? I have been interested in Ned’s life and times for a long time and look forward to a reply. Nothing under concrete yet. It’s still a work in progress.
re. Rescuing Richard ‘Dick’ Shelton
From: Mick Fitzsimons – 26 Mar 2012
Geoff, you will find the green sash and the rescue of young Dick Shelton has been widely documented, especially by the Shelton family.
re. The Girl Who Loved Ned Kelly
From: Paul O’Keefe – 12 Mar 2012
Thanks Lisa for that amazing review of my talk, your too kind. I’m so glad you were at Balmain Town Hall last week for it. To get that reaction from someone like yourself that knows the Kelly story so well, really makes it all worthwhile. It was my pleasure to share my inner family history with you and of course Ettie’s story that has never been told before. Regards Paul P.S My next talk is as part of “The History Group Series” Randwick Library Thursday April 12, 10.30-11.30am Randwick Branch Library, Level one, Royal Randwick Shopping Centre, Belmore Road, Randwick. Free event but bookings essential. Call: 9314 4888
Rescuing Richard ‘Dick’ Shelton
From: Geoff Adcock – 11 Mar 2012
I believe this tail is not true, but rather is in the same vain as the Churchill and Fleming story – Urban/Rural myth: A Scottish farmer saves a drowning boy’s life, but refuses a reward from the boy’s nobleman father. The nobleman then offers to provide an education for the farmer’s son. The son grows up to become Sir Alexander Fleming, the discoverer of penicillin. Years later, the nobleman’s son is stricken with pneumonia but saved by penicillin. That nobleman’s son is Winston Churchill. There is no evidence these events ever happened. (either Kelly or Churchill). Geoff, it appears you are living up to the last part of your surname…
The Girl Who Loved Ned Kelly
From: Lisa – 8 Mar 2012
After unforunately having to miss last years Ned Kelly Weekend in Beechworth, I was really glad to be able to attend Paul O’Keefe’s talk in Sydney. It was brilliant! Extremely interesting, informative and especially well read and displayed. It is always great to hear a talk from a Kelly Sympathiser. I very highly recommend this talk to anyone who can attend, I hope it gets heard by many people. Thank you very much to Paul O’Keefe for sharing his family’s history, and thank you very much to Ettie Hart herself, for saving her memories and thoughts of Ned. It is really wonderful to hear that such a lovely lady loved and cared for Ned in such a sweet way during a time when he would have needed it most.
Kelly’s Defence By A Lady
From: Lisa – 20 Feb 2012
Thank you Alan and Brad for posting this extremely interesting letter on Iron Outlaw for all to see. It really is an amazing letter, especially as it was written at the time in 1880. Ned’s trial definitely was not a fair one, even for the harshness of the times it was an outrage. It’s heartbreaking to think of Ned hitting his fist on the bench etc during the trial. I cannot begin to imagine how extremely frustrated and angry he must have felt, and not being able to do a thing about it. I first saw a copy of this letter years ago when I bought a Kelly Gang book at a second hand bookshop & it was placed in as part of the book at the back. I have always thought that the letter has a really similar ring to it as Ned’s letters.Like Ned’s letters, it is obviously written by a very intelligent and well spoken person. I have always liked to think that the letter was written by Maggie, it is very easy to picture her writing the letter in Ned’s defence.I have always thought of Maggie as being like a female Ned and have always liked to believe that she wrote this for him.
Mystery and Murder
From: Alan Crichton – 7 Feb 2012
Took a bit of a drive down to Mansfield the other day to again wander through the local cemetery and of course lose myself once more in the Stringybark forest. When in the town I paid a visit to the local book shop and happened upon a book titled, Mystery & Murder in Mansfield, written by Angela Evans along with Anne & Bruce Fullerton. As the book states, it’s about a study of murders, mysterious deaths and suicides in a country Victorian town and districts between 1862 and 1899. Along with the three Police officers who were killed in 1878 at Stringybark Creek, are also the graves of some of the other characters mentioned in this book. Another interesting book I bought was titled High Street Traders of Mansfield 1854-2000 by the Mansfield Historical Society and researched by Pat Arbuthnot and Sheila Hutchinson. It gives the names of the trader and the type of business they ran at the time when the town of Mansfield was in a state of panic over the killing of three police up in the Stringybark forest in 1878. They were concerned that the murderous Ned Kelly and his blood-thirsty mates would enter the town and reap havoc on them all. Many of these traders and residents are not mentioned in most Kelly books, but after reading both of the above mentioned, it gave me a much clearer picture of not just the name of a town where McIntyre cried foul murder, but Mansfield as a living breathing community at the time of the Kelly outbreak. So the next time you visit the Mansfield Cemetery, and have read “Mystery and Murder in Mansfield” look not only for the graves of those three troopers, but also the resting places of those other poor buggers, whose stories you have read, and remember the tragic circumstances that laid them there. Well said
From: Debbie Lane – 7 Feb 2012
Hi – I am a direct descendant of Anne Hart from Dublin convict on board the Caroline in 1833. She had distinguishing marks on her left hand which match the same marks on the hand of Richard Hart who is the father of Steven Hart. Anne was convicted of pickpocketing. I think my Anne was the sister of Steven’s dad Richard Hart I am trying to find if Steve Hart is a distant cousin. Could my email address be passed onto any Hart descendants. Thank you.
re: Cry a go
From: Lisa – 5 Feb 2012
I definitely agree with Alan, thank goodness for IronOutlaw. Things have been pretty quiet for a while (everywhere) as far as posts, but it is always great knowing that this wonderful website is here. Being a very proud & keen fellow Nedite, it is wonderful to know that you can keep in touch with all the Ned news etc thanks to IronOutlaw. Though I am not a member myself I really enjoy reading the posts on facebook, but must admit that I much prefer the original IO feedback page. It is always interesting to read posts etc on other Kelly Gang websites, there were a couple of terrific ones especially in the past, but IronOutlaw has always been my favourite by far, so I too would just like to say thanks very much to Brad for having this brilliant site here for us. Just in the process of redesigning the site as I want to add some more interactivity. But with 400+ pages it will take a while…
Cry a go
From: Alan Crichton – 5 Feb 2012
Well, thank the heavens for Ironoutlaw and its Facebook page!!! At least likeminded Nedites can have their say and cry a go when they feel like it. There’s a Kelly Forum out there that’s not so obliging. They have been thinking of closing their Forum because of the lack of patronage. Now some might be aware, i don’t mind doing a little reading on the Kelly story and don’t mind having a bit of a say on the subject, but for some reason of late i have been, may i be so bold to say, blocked by this Forum. For the past 6 months or so poor ol’ Al can’t have a say. I didn’t post all that much on this Forum anyway, but what little i did might have upset its administration. Over the years Kelly sites come and go, but at least Ironoutlaw has remained strong in its more than 15 years as the premium Kelly website. Maybe one of the reasons for its success is that you can have a say. Keep up the great work Brad and stuff the others. Coming up to 17 years next month…
Kelly Gang Event
From: Lisa – 7 Jan 2012
The original ‘Jerilderie Letter’ will feature at this years Ned Kelly festival in Jerilderie. Still waiting for the ‘organisiers’ to send me some information so I can post it to our 330,000+ strong readership…
Remembrance Day For Ned
From: Lisa – 11 Nov 2011
Rest In Peace dear brave Ned. You will never ever be forgotten.
Richard Hart father of Steve
From: Anne Willoughby – 29 Oct 2011
Does anyone have information on the parents of Steve Hart? I am trying to work out if Steve’s father Richard could possibly be Richard Harding alias Hart, Irish Convict born in Dublin c1817. This Richard was transported on the “Lady McNaughton” in 1835 and assigned to J Hume in Yass. He received his TOL for the Goulburn area in 1840. I believe Richard Harding alias Hart’s brother was Nicholas Hart, transported in 1833 on the “Royal Admiral”. If someone could point me in the right direction to find out more about Steve Hart’s parents that would be great!
re. Ned’s Possessions
From: Lisa – 28 Oct 2011
Hi Alan,I very much hope you are right and that Ned’s neckerchief & ring are kept together somewhere,that would be very lovely if they are.Even if people outside Ned’s family might not ever know & that (if true) they may not ever be on display etc,I just hope it is true & that they are kept to this day.It would be so wonderful for them to have been given back to Ned’s family.Like you said Alan,Ned took alot of care to have those two very handsome photographs taken.So the ring must be special to him.That is very interesting re the Gaol rules regarding prisoners not being allowed to have jewellery etc.Perhaps Governor Castieau made an exception with Ned,as he seemed to have liked him.I remember reading also that prisoners usually had to have their hair & beards shaved off too,but Ned was allowed to keep his beautiful locks.Perhaps th at was due to the Governor also? Yes it is really interesting to wonder where the ring came from as (like you said) the Police took practically everything from Ned at Glenrowan,not to mention the Doctor who pinched the poor buggers sash.I’m just so glad that Ned was allowed to keep the ring with him.Perhaps it was a message to someone? Perhaps his Mum was allowed to give it to him? Or Maggie? Either way,there is something very sweet about it I think.Whenever I look at those two portraits of Ned it is so amazing to me that at such an unbelievable time & the situation he was in,he was still thinking of doing for others,to have those fantastic portraits taken for his family & friends.At a time when most people would be collapsed in a corner,he was still thinking of others before himself,a way to help soothe them.His bravery is just incredible to say the least.A truly amazing man,who could and should have been anything.
re. Ned’s Possessions
From: Alan Crichton – 23 Oct 2011
Hi Lisa, I also am intrigued with the ring Ned is wearing in this photograph. Where did that ring come from, and how was it that Ned was able to wear jewellery in a penal institution? From what I’ve been told, gaol authorities stripped all prisoners of personal possessions on entry to the gaol. In Extracts from Gaol Regulations and General Orders printed in 1914 for N.S.W prisons it states: All prisoners, upon their reception in gaol, shall be duly searched, and all property taken from them, and into the charge of the Governor. …” I assume this would also apply to Victoria, and doubt if regulations from 1880 to 1914 would have changed that much. At Glenrowan, police stripped Ned of his last threepence, a Geneva watch, his boots, and thanks to Doc Nicholson, his green and gold sash. Ned was bloody lucky to still keep his pants on. On the 10th November, probably during his midday exercise according to Ian Jones, Ned is photographed by the gaol’s photographer, Nettleton . The two photographs were requested by Ned for the benefit of his family. That same afternoon Ned is allowed visitations from his mother Ellen, his brother Jim, sisters Kate and Grace, and cousins Tom Lloyd and Kate Lloyd, not to mention the Gaol’s governor Castieau and his snotty son, Godfrey. At five past ten the next morning, Ned Kelly’s life has been extinguished at the end of a rope. As the body slowly revolved, the light caught a plain ring on his right hand. This was reported by the Bendigo Independent on 12/11/1880(Ian Jones, A Short Life). This report must have been accurate as the reporter could not have possibly seen the photograph of Ned taken by Nettleton only the day before the execution. If I may be so bold to assume the gaol authorities have followed regulations, and Ned was not wearing that ring when he was interned, who gave it to him for that photograph, and why was it so important for Ned to be photographed wearing it the day before he’s to be hanged and after death? Maybe that photograph was actually taken after his family visitation and not “probably during his midday exercise” as stated by Ian Jones. If this is the case, did a member of his family smuggle the ring in? I’d lay money it wasn’t Castieau. Ned has gone to great lengths in his presentation for this last image of himself. His neatly combed hair, neckerchief, and well placed, ring adorned, right hand make it a very posing and intriguing image. I’m not sure Lisa, but I believe that ring and neckerchief are together, and treasured in a small cardboard box.
re. Thoughts on Ned’s Resting Place
From: Barry Doolan – 23 Oct 2011
As a relation on Ned’s maternal side of the family I would like that Ned be buried at Greta Cemetry where his mother is buried. Ned’s grand parents were my gr-gr grandparents. I would rather that not such a big fuss be made of his burial but that is probably out of the question . Ned R.I.P.
From: Lisa – 26 Sep 2011
When I look at the absolutely perfect full length photograph of Ned (where he looks to be winking at the camera) taken on November 10th, I often wonder about the ring he is clearly wearing in the photo. It is very sad to think of, but it was mentioned by newspaper articles at the time that Ned was wearing the ring afterwards on November 11th. So he must not have given it to anyone as shown in The Last Outlaw. I’ve often wondered and hoped that the ring might have been returned to Ned’s family? I guess it is a long shot in hoping so, as the authorities never seemed to bother much in going out of their way, and also with the fact that other people who were meant to help, (like the Doctor at Glenrowan who stole Ned’s sash from him while he lay there badly wounded) tended to do the opposite of helping, other than themselves. But I do remember reading that a flowered handkerchief of Ned’s was kept, which is very lovely. I just always wondered what might have become of the ring. It would be wonderful for it to have been returned to Ned’s family, it would have been such a lovely keepsake for them.
Ned Kelly’s Avenel Farm
From: Carolyn Steers – 20 Sep 2011
HELP!! We are the owners of Ned Kelly’s farm at Avenel. The land is situated inside the town boundary and is a very popular tourist attraction. The land is in titles of 5 acres and we have them for sale our intention was to retain it’s original title size to maintain the historical importance of the site. One block was sold and we have been informed that the Shire of Strathbogie is considering a planned sub-division of 4 home sites, thus the Kelly farm will become a sea of homes and it’s historical significance will be lost. We need your help. Please e-mail me will your objection and I will forward it to the Shire.
From: Matt B – 8 Sep 2011
Hey mate i am 16 and i have read basicly everything related to ned kelly that i can find. i look at your website about 7 times a week and it is the best one out there. i am complety fasinated with the ned kelly story and everything related to it. i was just wondering if you could answer a few questions for me if that is not to much trouble? I was reading a short life and i saw that ned had a photo taken in beachworth known as the gentleman photo but i can’t find it anywhere do you also know where dan kelly’s prison photo is? Also any information that you could tell me about the ned kelly story i would love. Thank you for reading this and have a good day! Yes, the Gentleman Ned photo left a few ‘experts’ with more than just egg on their collective faces…
re. Thoughts on Ned’s Resting Place
From: Lisa – 7 Sep 2011
I think it goes without saying that Ned SHOULD be able to be allowed to Rest In Peace at Greta with his family and friends like he wanted to in the first place. His family today SHOULD be able to do that for him without the slightest worry that he will ever be disturbed again. Of course they SHOULD be able to, no question. But like Ellen said, it is very sad that in the not too distant past things have gone on. While it wouldn’t even enter the head of most of us to disturb a persons final resting place,unfortunately there are some disgraceful people out there who would. As it has been very sadly done before at Greta & Benalla, it would be absolutely heartbreaking if Ned was disturbed again, he has had way too much of that already. I do not envy the Kelly family on their upcoming decision,as it is such a very big and important on e to say the least. It is horrible that anyone should have to worry about a relatives final resting place being disturbed,it’s hard to believe anyone would ever even think of doing such a thing,but these idiots are out there, and it is these morons who will make this an even tougher decision for Ned’s family. With Ned being so high profile it is a great worry, and it is disgraceful that it should have to be. I wish the Kelly family all the best with their decision for Ned.
re. Thoughts on Ned’s Resting Place
From: Mick Fitzsimons – 7 Sep 2011
If the family decide on the Greta cemetery (or any for that matter), I would suggest it be kept secret and the government and associated bodies give an undertaking to not release details of Ned’s remains being given to the family for ‘at least’ 12 months, or even longer. It would be great to have a marked grave, though the associated problems with vandalism/desecration are a huge problem. Just to eventually know the cemetery, I believe would be enough, given that other members of the family are also there. It is the place, not the marker that is important. I know from experience with family members in unmarked graves, where records have been lost. The only problem would be is how the grave would be recorded in the cemetery records.
re. Thoughts on Ned’s Resting Place
From: Ellen Hollow – 7 Sep 2011
I like your optimism Warren! I wish I could think along those lines, but sadly with what has happened in the not too distant past I remain pessimistic.
Victorian Police Association
From: Mick Fitzsimons – 7 Sep 2011
Peter Haynes and Brad are spot on about Victorian Police Association president Greg Davies. If he knows anything of the Kelly Outbreak, one would think he would want to distance himself and his association from the corrupt and brutal police force of the day. If he is well versed in the story, then it just goes to show that things haven’t changed much within Victoria Police and they hold these early thugs in high regard and as role models, hence the current state of Victoria Police. Remember their motto, “It’s better to convict an innocent man, than no man at all”. Pete’s obviously never visited our Real Villains page…
Ned’s Final Resting Place
From: Ellen Hollow – 6 Sep 2011
Having returned Sunday from a wonderful five months in Europe to the news of Ned’s Bones and a swag of telephone messages I am asking for some assistance. The Kelly descendants need to come to a consensus about the possible resting place for the remains. That is IF the powers that be agree to return them. I have agreed to be the contact person for Kate’s Family . I have also agreed to pass on to Paul Griffiths any messages coming through me from Grace’s line. I will also do the same for Maggies line. I sent an email messages to many direct descendants of the Kelly girls. However, some emails have bounced, there for there have been address changes since last contact. Would direct family please contact me at firstname.lastname@example.org and I will keep you informed and in the loop. Your input is important and if we do not pull together and stay united, others will make decisions we probably will not be happy with.
Thoughts on Ned’s Resting Place
From: Warren Trick – 6 Sep 2011
The day before Ned was hanged, he dictated a letter to John Castieau the Governor of the Melbourne Gaol. Resigned to his fate, he simply asked that after his execution his body be given to friends for burial in consecrated grounds. We all know that his request fell on deaf ears, that shouldn’t be the case in 2011. What are your thoughts on his remains being laid to rest, once and for all, in the old Greta cemetary, where I believe his mother, brother and other kinfolk lie, albeit in unmarked graves ? Forty years ago I was told that the Kelly relatives all knew where their ancestors lay and that headstones and other references to their last resting places were removed to avoid desecration and unwanted attention. I don’t believe that that would happen now. Let the remains be put to rest with the dignity they were never afforded in the past.
Joe Byrne sketch
From: Diane Boyne – 6 Sep 2011
Hi I would be very interested in speaking with someone who knows something about sketches done of the Kelly gang. I have what I have been told is an original sketch of Joe Byrne when he was propped against the door at Benella lock up. Thanking you in advance.
Independent Australia report on Ned
From: Lisa – 5 Sep 2011
What a very interesting article Brad. I wonder if it will be possible for the Kelly family, or someone on their behalf, to request that investigations at both the Australian Institute Of Anatomy & the Medical School at Melbourne University could be conducted? You would think that with the current high media attention that something could be done for the family, and have these places be made to thoroughly look into their archives. If there is any chance of this being true, then the investigation must continue for Ned, and these two Institutes should be made to look into it. As it is only right that Ned finally be laid to rest with the dignity he deserves. It is heartbreaking to think that his personal self could still be out there being treated like a trophy somewhere. Ned has been denied too much for too long. Give his family the chance to let him Rest In Peace forever. The best case scenario would be to bury Ned’s bones, skull and brain all at the same time
Deciding Ned Kelly’s Last Resting Place
From: Peter (Stinger) Nettleton – 5 Sep 2011
Dorothy Brown wrote: “Lets hope that all the families are included as to Ned’s resting place. There are a few on his mother’s side, and one on his father’s side”. I suggest using the decision-making process popular among our indigenous brothers and sisters. Gather all those claiming to be descendants on either side (anthropological research may be warranted) together, close them off from outside influences and sit them down until they reach a consensus decision. It may take time, but a simple majority vote is always going to leave someone dissatisfied.
re. SBS’s Ned’s head
From: Lisa – 4 Sep 2011
Tonight’s documentary was very interesting, and also very sad. I had to look away for alot of it though, as some parts were very upsetting and graphic. The work the scientists did was incredible, the way they are able to find out things today is really unbelievable. All the people involved looked to be very respectful of Ned which was great. Thank you to all the scientists, researchers and Leigh Olver for making it possible in finding dear Ned.
SBS’s Ned’s head
From: Michael Foley – 4 Sep 2011
Overall the SBS documentary was highly enlightening and remarkably showed that there are still hidden treasures to be found in the archives that positively add to the Kelly story. The connection to Deeming and Jack The Ripper served only to pad the program out. It was a pointless diversion, unsubstantiated and amateurish. Linking Deeming to the Ripper via his venereal disease and modus operandi totally ignored the fact that in two of the Ripper’s victims, Catherine Eddowes and Mary Kelly, both horribly mutilated, considerable surgical skill was required to inflict the injuries that caused death and subsequent removal of organs. However, one aspect of the whole program could not be faulted and contributed to its overall interest and appeal – no Alex McDermott. Yes, give me Nearly Ned over that Ranga any day!
re. Ned Kelly’s Remains Found
From: Peter Haynes – 4 Sep 2011
Debate has already turned to whether, given his crimes, Kelly should be buried and thereby become a tourist attraction. Victorian Police Association president Greg Davies certainly doesn’t think so. “His descendants have the right and the responsibility to do what they see fit,” Mr Davies said. “But let’s remember he’s a triple murderer. Let’s not create a shrine where the feeble-minded can go and lionise someone who clearly doesn’t deserve to be.” }} It appears by the above statements, some modern day Victorian Police are yet to acknowledge the wrong doing of some of their members during the Kelly years and their actions which contributed to the events that occurred. The actions of some of the Police at the time were despicable, and should be remembered. Feeble minded people who choose to ignore history or even try and rewrite it are more of a concern to myself, than those that wish to visit the final resting place of a man such as Ned Kelly. Davies is yet another ignorant public servant who obviously struggles to understand anything that’s not a command or being fed to him on a dish. His little brain either cannot or will not address the ongoing problems of the Victorian Police Force. Much easier to blame someone else…
re. Ned Kelly’s Remains Found
From: Lisa – 1 Sep 2011
I have just read a very disturbing report that said the Victorian Government want to put Ned on display.No! PLEASE do not let that happen. How dare they want to just treat him like an object. They are just as bad as the ghouls back in Ned’s day who treated him so horribly afterwards. This cannot be allowed to happen! Leave him alone! Let him Rest In Peace! This is a huge worry. There are so many idiots out there. The Victorian Government or anyone else has no right to interfere with Ned. It is up to his relatives and no one else. If I were a Kelly descendant I would vote for a very respectful cremation and to quietly let the dear man go in the ranges of the Kelly Country.
re. Ned Kelly’s Remains Found
From: Tony – 1 Sep 2011
It’s fraught with sensationalism which ever way you look at it. I don;t like to see him end up in a museum like some extinct parrot but on the other hand a burial will probably end up with trophy hunters desecrating the place. Amazing eh? 130 years on and he’s still making headlines.
re. Ned Kelly’s Remains Found
From: Sherallee Schubert – 1 Sep 2011
I could not believe my ears on the news about the DNA test on the bones that proved to be Neds. I thought this would never happen! This is the best thing to happen since Ned and the boys were still alive. Now our dearest Ned can rest in peace at last all be it that his scull is still missing. Who ever has the skull if they know it is Neds for sure they should return it now that the rest of Neds bones are found. They have no right to keep it. Dear Ned, rest in peace at last ‘ol man.
re. Ned Kelly’s Remains Found
From: Dorothy Brown – 1 Sep 2011
Lets hope that all the families are included as to Ned’s resting place. There are a few on his mother’s side, and one on his father;s side. Rest in peace in Ned.
re. Ned Kelly’s Remains Found
From: Michele Eve – 1 Sep 2011
Fantastic to hear the news about the identification of Ned’s bones. At last. May he finally rest in peace. Was sitting in my kitchen drinking the first cup of tea of the day when I heard on BBC Radio 4. Cheers Ned.
re. Ned Kelly’s Remains Found
From: Peter (Stinger) Nettleton – 1 Sep 2011
I suspect the lobbying done on this site had a lot to do with this outcome. Congratulations to all concerned. Legally of course, no-one can own a dead body. The immediate family are usually left to make decisions within health and shire regulations, but this would have to be considered an exceptional case. For mine, I can’t see how there could be any other choice but Greta Cemetery with those of his loved ones as the final resting place. I know that will cause someone a security headache, but hey, he’s worth it. Now for that wayward skull! The axe box, or what is left of it, could probably join the other relics in the Melbourne Public Library gallery.
re. Ned Kelly’s Remains Found
From: Lisa – 1 Sep 2011
What amazing news! I have been crying & smiling about the news that broke today regarding Ned. It is really wonderful for all the Kelly family & most of all for Ned. There is a huge decision coming up for the Kelly family & it is of course theirs alone to make. I know they will put Ned first and make the right decision for him. No matter what though Ned isn’t (and never has been) in those horrible places of Melbourne & Pentridge Gaols, he is in the places he loves the most and is untouchable. Rest in Peace dear brave Ned. You will always be loved & remembered forever. He is eternally in the ranges of his beloved Kelly Country.
re. Ned Kelly’s Remains Found
From: Tony – 1 Sep 2011
Just heard that ned’s remains have been officially identified through D.N.A. This sounds..if the reports are correct…that it will put to bed one of the great mysteries of the legend. Apparently they have contacted the relative who gave the D.N.A. sample to see what he wants to do with the bones… How do we send him off ? How indeed? Personally, it should be up to his extended family, not just Mr Olver to work out…
Ned Kelly’s Remains Found
From: Scot McPhie – 1 Sep 2011
Ned’s remains (minus his skull) have been positively identified at Pentridge. Hopefully he’ll get a respectful burial now.
re. Ned Kelly Beechworth Weekend
From: Lisa – 27 Aug 2011
Thank you very much Alan for the great review of the Ned Kelly Weekend. Like all your write ups,it was a very interesting & funny read.Thanks again.
re. Ned Kelly Beechworth Weekend
From: Noelene Allen – 11 Aug 2011
Hi Brad, I would like to thank all those people who supported me and came to my talk, I hope they all enjoyed it. Congratulations to Paul for his talk on Saturday it was really interesting and he told it so well. The food was good too and the atmosphere in the cellar at the Nicholas Hotel really suited the story Paul was telling us all. Great to catch up with the “family” on Friday night. It is disappointing to hear that 2011 may be the last Beechworth Ned Kelly Weekend and as you would appreciate it really saddens me after all the years of hard work from a committed band of people that no one is prepared to continue to celebrate the anniversary of one of Beechworth’s and Australia’s most historical events. I can appreciate that the volunteers are tired as so many of them have put in so much to keep the weekend going over a number of years. It was disappointing not to see Indigo Shire Council Tourism staff at the weekend events supporting the volunteers who ran the weekend. When the Ned Kelly Weekend was revived in 2002 the intention was to fill a gap in the events calendar in Beechworth with the intention of assisting accommodation operators, retail operators etc to draw visitors during one of the quiet times for visitors. We achieved this intention for a number of years, maybe the Council and the Beechworth Chamber of Commerce don’t need to attract visitors anymore but I doubt it or maybe they don’t realise the importance of the historical events they are so fortunate to have at their doorstep. I am sure there is another “Kelly Town” just waiting to snap up the opportunity to attract the number of visitors a well planned and executed weekend can bring to a town. It has happened in Beechworth in the past and with the right support it can again. Again thanks everyone and I hope we will all get together again next year to enjoy a weekend of friendship, camaraderie and to share our love of history.
re. Ned Kelly Beechworth Weekend
From: Lola Rowe nee Lloyd – 8 Aug 2011
A great weekend, maybe a little quieter than 2010. But it is what you make it … Lets get behind it with goodwill to all.
re. Ned Kelly Beechworth Weekend
From: Paul O’Keefe – 8 Aug 2011
This years event was always going to be low key compared to the previous year. I had a great weekend as usual catching up with good friends and some of my extended family. I really think the Indigo Shire and the Beechworth Chamber of Commerce are the ones that any criticism should be directed towards. I’m amazed these two organisations wouldn’t throw everything at their disposal to maximise numbers to this three day event for the town. You only have to look at recent press reports of the state of the retail sector (nationally) and how businesses are really struggling. Any regional town would kill to have an event like this on their calender. The obvious lack of support and resources forwarded to these volunteers that worked tirelessly (for free) over the weekend was a disgrace. I really feel sorry for them as they tried their best as they could under the circumstances. (I also understand many were seriously ill throughout the year as well which depleted their ranks) What also disappoints me is the lack of the vocal majority of the so called “Kelly Enthusiasts” that don’t support this once a year event, but brag about how passionate they are about “the story” on this and other websites and forums and then don’t actually turn up to support it WTF? Some bizarrely living only a few hours drive from Beechworth. Stinger, I’m not overly worried about the “carnivalisation” of the event as long it’s done with some respect. It’s an amazing story that should be commemorated. I personally think there should be more of emphasis to attract more families and to encourage the Kids of all ages to participate, they are vital for the future for the Kelly legend to continue (more free of charge events- that are all sponsored) Get some prac teachers from the College, Get a large tent, have Cardboard Helmet making, Period school lessons, GingerNed baking, Nedplaster painting etc. Stinger, with your love of performing I think you could be perfect as the founding member of the “Iron Wiggles” ….now that would be entertaining! Well said POK, funny how all the big mouths never bothered to show their heads at Beechworth this year…
Ned’s Head Again
From: Peter (stinger) Nettleton – 5 Aug 2011
Heard on the ABC Local Radio News here in Broome FNWA this evening that the ‘Baxter Skull’ has been tested and found to be indeed over 100 years old. Then there was some bullsh about the Coroner not being able to carry out any further testing on it because it is so old. WTF? They do DNA tests on neanderthals, don’t they? I seem to recall there is evidence on this very website that the Coroner also now has custody of the rest of Ned’s bones, it’s just that they are mixed up with a heap of others retrieved from Pentridge before it was turned into townhouses. For pity’s sake, can’t someone in the Victorian government (or opposition) take a stand and DNA test the skull and all the other bones? It should be easy enough to match Ned’s DNA from the bloodstains on the ‘green sash’ or the boot currently on display in the Melbourne Public Library. Maybe then his remains can be reunited and delivered to his descendants for a long-delayed decent burial in Greta Cemetery. PS: Brad, I will discuss this with Steve Hawke as soon as he is free from his theatrical endeavours.
re. Ned Kelly Beechworth Weekend
From: Steve – 5 Aug 2011
Hey, I remember a Charlie Showers from Beechworth when I was there last year so he is indeed real (his name stuck in my mind due to his uncanny resemblance to Gollum from the Lord of the Rings trilogy). Hope that description helps if you need to track him down. I’ll be arriving there on Saturday to listen to Mr O’Keefe’s talk so we can search for the Shower guy after that. See you all in Beechworth! Let’s clear this up once and for all. The Council needs to hire a full time Events Coordinator for the entire Shire. I have no issue with the undermanned volunteer committees trying to get this weekend up and running. My issue has always been with the so called ‘organisers’, namely the Council and their paid representatives holding the purse strings. An action packed weekend would benefit a large number of businesses in the greater community and further increase the reputation of Beechworth as Victoria’s premier tourist town. The Council needs to coordinate an official event production and not simply leave it up to local societies or clubs to try and nut out the logistics in their spare time. A properly funded event supported by innovative and entertaining presentations promoted through the correct media channels would be a gold-mine for the town. P.S. It seems Showers is ‘real’ as he’s now sent me his ‘proper’ email address email@example.com although I’m guessing it’s been ripped it off some unsuspecting user’s account.
re. Ned Kelly Beechworth Weekend
From: Charlie Showers – 4 Aug 2011
Dear Iron Outlaw, as I understand you live locally thus why are you not on the organising committee? For one so critical I expect to see you volunteering your time and expertise next year and offering numerous ideas on how to improve the weekend. From my take it seems as though your ego has taken a hit with the Ned Kelly Weekend organisers seemingly overlooking the bastion of all things Kelly ….. ironoutlaw.com, how dare they not acknowledge your importance. Did you ever write to the organising committee offering your services? The vast majority of people attending the Kelly weekend are not passionate Kelly followers, they are general folk going for a drive to lap up a little bit of history. As good as your website is, only a very small number of those attending the weekend would ever have been to ironoutlaw.com I love your website and your passion for all things Kelly however some of your comments are just plain ridiculous, take this for example: “Yep, not their greatest idea. Just highlights the ‘brain-drain’ problem facing country towns across Australia. All the great marketing and promotion people live in the city so what’s left behind are ‘organisers’ who are either on their way up, or on their way down. In this instance, it’s the latter…” With comments and an attitude like that why would an event organiser even waste their time communicating with you, there is clearly a chip on your shoulder. Well done I say to the volunteer committee, Beechworth is a small town with 5 major festivals during the year with volunteers carrying every single event, there is only so much that can get done. To you ironoutlaw, I challenge you next year to leave the ego behind, roll up your sleeves, contact the committee, genuinely offer your help and ensure that 2012 is the best Kelly Weekend ever. Otherwise I suggest going to Glenrowan, Euroa or Jerilderie and start another event as you think it should be done. As Peter says isn’t it time we “grew up, pooled our energies and just enjoyed the yarns, the debates and the fellowship of paying homage to a national legend” Yeah ‘Charlie’ (I wish I could hide behind an anonymous gmail account) I live local, if you count residing 275km away in Melbourne! The amount of publicity (and money) this weekend could generate for Beechworth is mind boggling, even for a simpleton like you, so why can’t the ‘organisers’ throw some coin towards a proper event company running the show? If you want some budget tips I suggest you fork out $14.95 and buy the ‘Events for Dummies’ book. Better yet come along to the Hibernian this Friday night and I’ll give you some free tips face-to-face. Naturally you won’t be there because ‘Charlie’ doesn’t exist. Is it just another weak-minded fool hiding behind a false name, too scared to come out of the basket…
re. Ned Kelly Beechworth Weekend
From: Peter (Stinger) Nettleton – 3 Aug 2011
Despite living in remote WA, I have attended the last 3 Kelly Weekends, the last 2 as a performer. Over that time, I have noticed something of a schism in the ranks of my fello ‘Ned-nerds’. The first year (2008) we all got into the spirit of the stories and ‘conferred’ long and hard together. The second year, there was controversy over the (apparent) undue emphasis on the police point of view. Last year, there were ‘invitation only’ events and expensive cocktail receptions at which certain ‘outlaws’ were ironically conspicuous by their absence. This year, I decided to give it a rest (and I wasn’t invited back anyway:(). Could it be that the old rivalries between the ‘sympathisers’ and the ‘loyalists’ have been reignited, with old wounds reopened and old scores still unsettled? Is there to be another fisticuffs on the banks of the river? Will more blood be spilt over the coffin of Aaron Sherritt? (Sorry – got a bit carried away there!) While I respect the rights of the descendants to resist having their family history ‘carnivalised’, isn’t it about time the rest of us grew up, pooled our energies and just enjoyed the yarns, the debates and the fellowship of paying homage to a national legend? This is actually our 6th year for the Ironoutlaw Dinner and the Hibernian feed has always been open to anyone. However, we’ve never spotted you there Stinger as you always seem to be ‘busy’…
re. Ned Kelly Beechworth Weekend
From: Lisa – 1 Aug 2011
Wow that is really disappointing to read that the event organisers are ‘playing this years event down’ and that they have never contacted Iron Outlaw in any way to help promote the NK weekend etc. I just don’t understand it. With hearing that, and the fact that this years program was very late in organising, it almost sounds like the organisers kind of can’t be bothered. I really hope that isn’t true, as like many others, we love the Ned Weekend & are very grateful it is on each year. I just hope the event organisers stay enthusiastic about it and that the weekend continues. If the current organisers are wanting to play it down instead of promoting it, then perhaps a newer, keener group of organisers is needed, someone like the original organisers. There seemed to have been lots more events & talks in previous years. Surely they know t hat Ned is a huge draw card for Beechworth (and other Kelly Country towns) and that Ned is the only reason that alot of people (us included) visit these wonderful towns in the first place. I just wish/hope the organisers appreciate Ned and the boys as much as we do. Seems like the ‘organisers’ (if you can call them that) prefer their country towns nice and quiet, without the hustle and bustle of us ‘tourist’…
re. Ned Kelly Beechworth Weekend
From: Lola Rowe nee Lloyd – 1 Aug 2011
All you “Kelly Buffs” hope to see you in Beechworth this weekend I suggest you go to listen to Noelene Allan give her most informative and wonderful talk on “ELLEN KELLY’ ON SUNDAY, and of course “CUZ” Paul O’Keefe is speaking at lunch on Saturday re the HARTS, he is the G/Grandson of Ettie who was pivotal to our story of Ned. Yes, these 2 talks are the must-see events of the Beechworth Weekend. Let’s get behind Noelene and Paul and generate a nice big crowd – and show the organisers what type of turnout they could’ve had over the entire weekend if they knew what they were doing!
re. Ned Kelly Beechworth Weekend
From: Alan Crichton – 28 Jul 2011
As a known supporter of Ironoutlaw and residing in what is known as Kelly Country, i have read but one article in the local newspapers up here regarding the Kelly weekend. The event organisers themselves have stated they are playing this years event down for whatever reasons. If the organisers are prepared to take this stand, then I find it difficult to understand why the responsibility should fall on Ironoutlaw’s shoulders. If anyone has supported the weekend since its beginning it was Ironoutlaw with no thanks at all from its organisers. I might also ad Mark, that being the somewhat slack of late, roving reporter for Ironoutlaw, I have given two interviews on radio 2AY over the last three weeks talking about Ironoutlaw, “the premier Ned Kelly website”, the programme for the Ned Kelly weekend, and the opening of the old Beechworth Gaol and its tours, and reaching some 30,000 listeners. So without even knowing it, Ironoutlaw has again given more publicity for the Weekend than the organising committee themselves. Many supporters of Ironoutlaw and locals will be attending the Weekend once again this year. Would you believe the Beechworth organisers have NEVER contacted Ironoutlaw about anything to do with the 2011 Ned Kelly Weekend. No official email or paperwork mentioning what’s going on, no invitation for any Ironoutlaw reporters to cover any events, and no request to help promote or develop the event…
From: Lola Rowe nee Lloyd – 18 Jul 2011
Thanks Peter bringing this great story to the notice of others on Ironoutlaw the man Jandamarra was a great fighter for the rights of the blackman, looking for fair play for both sides, very much like Ned in his day..As Ned and the boys have their story in “Dreamtime”I think we should know their story also. It is an honour and privilege to hear and see the Aboriginal stories portrayed.
Ned Exhibition In Sydney
From: Lisa – 18 Jul 2011
The Ned Kelly: Fact and Fiction Exhibition is currently being shown at the Liverpool Library in Sydney. The exhibition is on the 1st floor of the Library at 170 George Street, Liverpool.
re. Mr Brown’s Note Book
From: Mick Fitzsimons – 15 Jul 2011
G’day Alan and Lisa, interesting topic! I’m with you Al, that Ned was born around July 1855. To me, it’s compelling that a young Ned wrote his age as eleven and a half on his father’s death certificate. As Ned was giving the information, he would know exactly how old he was. I also think he went alone, as times were tough then and kids had to grow up fast. It was common to sign with an X, for those who could not write they name, as there name would be written for them and they would make their mark (X) and ‘their mark’ would be written next to the X. As for Mr. Brown, I’ve seen two separate pages from different years listing Ned and there are many discrepancies with some of the other students listed and been check with birth records. So Mr. Brown’s accounts cannot be taken as gospel. I have a theory on narrowing down N ed’s birth date and possible his actual baptism, but the powers to be are not being co-operative. This is an entirely different approach to others who have searched for it and finding dead people is a specialty of mine. I’m exhausted after all this writing, must be time for a snort of sherry.
From: Peter Eugene Nettleton – 14 Jul 2011
I was at the opening night for this spectacular outdoor show, Jandamarra, on St Mary’s Catholic College oval in Broome. It was a theatrical experience that will resonate with me for a long time. While essentially a professional production, the inclusion of local authentic countrymen and women make it more an event of community theatre at its very best. Playwright Steve Hawke has done an excellent job in telling the story of the man – described by some as the ‘Black Ned Kelly’ – with very little dramatic enhancement and few historic inaccuracies. Directors Phil Thompson and Kelton Pell have worked well together to keep the action flowing throughout and the mixture of dialects convincing yet understandable. The design is sensational, from the set which successfully conveys the impression of the boab savannah with a backdrop of limestone cliffs, the lighting which takes us from sunlit plain to shaded waterhole to underground cavern and back, the animations, so important to the magic realism moments and of course the very subtle subtitles. Jandamarra (aka ‘Pidgeon’) was said to have possessed supernatural powers, some of which are still too secret to be made public. Certainly, his power as a genuine Australian legend will live on long after the trans-Kimberley run of this show has ended. For more information visit the ABC web site.
re. Mr Brown’s Note Book
From: Lisa – 6 Jul 2011
That is another good question Alan,and one again which would be great to know the answer to. It is of course entirely possible that Mrs Kelly (or another relative) went with Ned, but just as possible that Ned went alone to help his Mum out so she wouldn’t have to go through doing that. He seems to have already been a real little man, even at the age of 11, and by all accounts was a very intelligent boy & good student, so it is easy to imagine him doing it alone.
re. 2010 Beechworth Weekend
From: Airi – 1 Jul 2011
I see the program for the weekend is finally up. I would like to publicly register my disgust at the planned ‘free’ re-enactment of Aaron Sherritt’s body being brought back to Beechworth. Yep, not their greatest idea. Just highlights the ‘brain-drain’ problem facing country towns across Australia. All the great marketing and promotion people live in the city so what’s left behind are ‘organisers’ who are either on their way up, or on their way down. In this instance, it’s the latter…
2010 Beechworth Weekend
From: Lisa – 1 Jul 2011
The full program list is finally up for this years Ned weekend. Looks good! Hmm, besides Paul and Noelene’s talks it look about as exciting as a jelly wrestling match between Billy-Bob Denheld and Alex McDermott…
re. Mr Brown’s Note Book
From: Alan Crichton – 30 Jun 2011
The other question Lisa is, did Ned actually go to Campions alone or did someone go with him? Did Ellen supply the information for the certificate and Ned signed it simply because she could not sign her name and he could? The rounding off of the ages of his siblings on the certificate is almost on the money, which makes me believe he was assisted by possibly another member of the family.
re. Mr Brown’s Note Book
From: Lisa – 29 Jun 2011
I believe Ned too Alan. Ned’s birthdate has been put all over the place from his school records to prison records etc. But there is just something about picturing that dear little boy very bravely signing his Father’s death certificate and so carefully entering his age to add the half year, that makes you think that a mid year 1855 birthdate for Ned is in the lead to be the right one. Hopefully Ned’s baptism record will be found so we will definitely know.
Mr Brown’s Note Book
From: Alan Crichton – 29 Jun 2011
Hi Brad, just having a browse through my copy of Mr Jones A Short Life when i came to the page that has a photo of Ned’s old school inspector, G.W Brown’s meticulous record of his visit to the Avenel Common School in 1864. On the page it has a date of 2/4/64 well highlighted. Edward Kelly’s age on this record is down as 9 years of age. Now Mr Jones and several other Kelly scholars have used this as part evidence to bring about a renowned date of Ned’s birth as December 1854. But what if Mr Brown rounded off their ages to the nearest year? If he hasn’t, Mr Jones is correct until I then saw that Ned’s sister Margaret’s age was also noted on the same page as 7 years of age. Margaret Kelly was born on the 15th June 1857, which in April of 1864 would make her age 6 years and 10 months. Why didn’t he mark her age as 6?? Looks like the inspector has rounded up Maggie’s age to 7. Now unlike the other scholars, a Kelly family member has informed me that her mother always believed Ned to have been born around July of 1855. If Mr Brown has applied the same calculation to Ned’s age , then i believe this date to be much closer to Ned’s actual date of birth, because in April of 1864, Ned’s age would have been 8 years and 9 months thus rounded up to 9. On the 28th December 1866, Ned Kelly signed his father’s death certificate and stated that he was eleven and a half years of age. Why did he include that half year, and why do so many not believe him? I would be interested in other readers thoughts on this subject, (especially the ol sherry snorter).
Rest In Peace Dear Boys
From: Lisa – 28 Jun 2011
‘Long may they reign, the Kelly’s, Byrne and Hart.’
Ned Kelly Armour Prototype
From: Simon Whitaker – 19 Jun 2011
I read this extraordinary claim in today’s Age, and can’t help but think someone is telling porkies:
In 1928, the club uncovered more evidence of Kelly’s time at Williamstown when, while resurfacing the ground, it discovered a prototype of the armour that the bushranger eventually used for the events in Glenrowan. The club has a picture of Kelly’s armour in its rooms. ”He is a legend of the Williamstown Football Club, and we’re proud to have had Ned Kelly play for this football club,” Monti said.
So apparently they want us to believe that ned kelly buried a prototype of his armour under a footy ground 7 years before the siege of Glenrowan?…. have you ever heard of such a claim before? And if true where is this prototype armour now? A very early (or late) April Fool’s Day report?
re. Not Just Ned
From: Lisa – 6 Jun 2011
Hi Warren, Yes I agree about the date thing also. I would have thought having a caption saying something like – worn at the siege of Glenrowan, June 1880 – would have been more fitting too.From most accounts Joe didn’t seem to be all that keen on the armour. Especially with the famous comment he was said to have told Ned during the siege – ‘I told you this bloody armour would bring us to grief.’ I’ve always really liked Ned’s response of ‘Don’t you believe it.’ But either way, those four suits of armour are truly brilliant things. I’m so glad they are all still here for us to admire today.
re. Not Just Ned
From: Warren Trick – 6 Jun 2011
I went to see the “Not Just Ned” exhibition too, Lisa. Like you, I thought it was very good and a great opportunity to see the four sets of armour, reassembled to probably as close as they will ever be, to being as they were 131 years ago this month. All the sets of armour had the boys name next to them and the date 1879? Do we know they were all made in 1879?. a bit nit picky I suppose, but as 27-28 June 1880 was the first time that anyone outside the gang’s circle of friends knew of or saw the armour. I thought a better caption would have been, say, “Armour worn by Ned Nelly during the seige of Glenrowan 27-28 June 1880″ 1879 caught my eye straight away. How pedantic. Let’s not carp. I still got a real buzz out of seeing the four sets of armour together for the first time in my life. I walked around and around the exhibition, noting every component piece, and the inside of the breast and backplates. A memorable day. The guide told the group that Joe was terrified of being shot in the eyes and so had the middle section of the hemet’s visor beaten up in the centre to” avoid a well aimed shot” I thought yeah, right. If I had been Joe I would have been more concerned about the big hole on the left hand side of the helmet, than the eye piece. I don’t think Joe was all that keen on the armour though, was he?
The Last Outlaw
From: Lisa – 24 May 2011
The Last Outlaw has recently been re released on dvd (we saw some copies at Big W the other day) there are unfortunately though no extras or special features, just a nice new cover. But it is definitely very good to see this great mini series get released again. It can be bought from here.
Not Just Ned
From: Lisa – 8 May 2011
We recently went to the Not Just Ned exhibition and it was fantastic! The whole exhibition is set out beautifully and is extremely interesting. The boys armour is by far the best exhibit though. They are on display together at pretty much the center of the exhibition room. They have a huge display of one of the photos taken of The Glenrowan Inn (after the siege) with the boys 4 suits of armour coming out through the photo all in a row, it looks really great. Ned’s armour is displayed as standing a little in front of Joe, Dan & Steve’s (similar to how they were at the start of the siege lined up together), and it is very easy to picture them inside their suits. When you walk around the back of the display, each suit is fully open to look at from the back too. It is really wonderful. There are also photos of each of the boys on display, and one of Mrs Kelly too, plus McIntyre’s scrapbook, the Court sessions book from 1880 and a little video playing from the 1906 film. It is all set out very well and looks amazing. It’s always incredible to be so close to them and see the armour in person. Looking at them all, I still can’t get over how they made them and especially how they wore them. They all look like they would weigh a tonne. I think it just goes to show again how brilliant Ned, Joe, Dan & Steve are. 🙂
Jack is Back
From: Alan Crichton – 24 Apr 2011
To all the Ironoutlaw readers, I have great pleasure in announcing that my dear and lost chum, Captain Jack Hoyle has finally returned from the Carolinas. Welcome home dear Jack, all is forgiven. Reading is believing so I’ll wait until the good captain sends in his next update!
The song ” The Kelly Gang“
From: Peter Haynes – 18 Apr 2011
Dear Sir/Madam, I have enjoyed your Ironoutlaw site now for a long time, the most detailed and informative site on the Kelly era that there is. I notice you are listing a number of songs dealing with Ned and the Kelly gang. A song released by Australia’s own legendary country music performer the late Buddy Williams called “The Kelly Gang“, is in my opinion the best ever written and performed song dealing with Ned Kelly that there has been to date. The song originally released on a 78rpm on the Regal Zonophone label, was recorded on the 2nd of October 1953. The song written and performed by Buddy, gives him a fair and just treatment and tells the story as it should be told. Many songs have been written about Ned Kelly over the years, but this will always be my favourite. Just like how we enjoyed The Last Outlaw as giving Ned and his Family fair and just treatment, i feel Buddy did the same in song for Ned and his family and friends. Below is a You Tube link where someone has put the song up with just a photo of Buddy around the time the song was recorded. I only hope you can include this great song on you great site. All the best, Peter Haynes. Yes, I prefer ‘Madam’ but only after a few beers…
Piece of Beechworth Gaol on eBay
From: Anthony Smit – 9 Apr 2011
On Ebay there’s a bloke selling a piece of granite from the wall of Beechworth Gaol for $450 bucks if anyone is interested. That’s one way to get a heafty fine from the Government…
Bakery and Comic
From: Stephen Banham – 29 Mar 2011
Hey buddy. Great site!! I’m from Adelaide and was wondering if you had heard of Ned Kelly Pies? Couldn’t see it on your links page. I have been there once. Good pies from memory. Two cops came in when I was ordering. I found it ironic to see cops buying baked goods in a Ned Kelly themed shop 🙂 PS Any idea where I can get a copy of that comic by Monty Wedd? Looks great! There was a rumour Monty’s work was going to be republished but it’s never happened. As for the pie shop claiming they have the original Ned Kelly Pie just don’t mention it to Tom O’Toole…
Ireland and the GFC
From: Michele Eve – 24 Mar 2011
My sad news from the Museum of Ireland of a couple of weeks ago – that the Not Just Ned exhibition isn’t coming to Dublin afterall – is confirmed in the press. The price of Insurance being beyond the Irish economy I suspect. Ah well … next time.
Ned Kelly Tattoo
From: Daniel Robinson – 12 Mar 2011
Hello was just woundering if you know where i can get ned Kelly tattoo designs from. Cheers any help i would be greatfull
re. My book: The Hunt for Ned Kelly
From: Sophie Masson – 10 Mar 2011
Thanks, Airi, that’s great news, glad you all loved the book! I so much enjoyed writing it, and I am loving writing this new one too, should be off to my publisher in a couple of weeks (it’ll be out next year.) Have already bent her ear about a third Ned Kelly novel, she seems most amenable to it! And I’ll make sure too a copy goes asap to Iron Outlaw forthwith! Reading it now and so far, so good (like my other favourite ‘Whistle Man’). I’ve just one question: Why would you go through Mansfield to get to Benalla?
re. My book: The Hunt for Ned Kelly
From: Airi – 3 Mar 2011
Hi Sophie, just wanted to say that I have your book and I also gave a copy of it to four of my friends on the occasion of our special Kelly Country tour in August last year. We all enjoyed your story very much. I love how you constructed it around the existing photograph, very cleverly done! Like Brian Ridden’s excellent ‘Whistle Man’, your story may be aimed at the younger demographic but it is an enjoyable read for adults as well. Looking forward to your new book! Loved the ‘Whistle Man’…
My book: The Hunt for Ned Kelly
From: Sophie Masson – 3 Mar 2011
Hi Just wondering if you’d caught up with my own small contribution to the Ned Kelly corpus – my novel in diary form, The Hunt for Ned Kelly (published by Scholastic Press in 2010). It’s aimed at kids. It’s had a very good response from readers and been reprinted a few times now! Set in the last year of Ned’s life, it’s told through the eyes of 11 year old Jamie Ross who with his older sister Ellen travels north from Melbourne to Beechworth after the death of their father – and who falls right into the drama of the hunt for Ned Kelly and his friends. It’s fiction but have also tried to convey the facts of this important period in Ned’s life. I’m at present writing another novel for Scholastic about Ned –this time when he’s 15 and apprenticed to Harry power–once more it’s fiction and told through the eyes of another boy. I am fascinated and moved by the story of Ned and I hope I’ve done justice to it. I’m of French origin and came to Australia as a 5 year old kid without any English – but when I was about 8 or 9 my mother bought for me Frank Clune’s picture book about Ned Kelly, saying we had to know about Australias greatest folk hero! I was hooked by the story and it stayed in my mind for years till I wrote my own take on the life and legend of the Iron Outlaw … best wishes, and congrats on a great and lively site, Sophie Masson. Sophie, maybe you could ask the PR at Scholastic Press to stop being a tight-ass and send me a copy to review on the site…
re. Descendants Book
From: Mick Fitzsimons – 3 Mar 2011
Very interesting stuff Paul and what a find you had. Just goes to show that new things keep turning up every now and again. Maybe the Declaration of Independence is still out there somewhere.
re. Descendants Book
From: Ellen Hollow – 1 Mar 2011
There are very many descendants who value their privacy, hence the idea of a descendants book is more than likely a non starter.
re. Descendants Book
From: Paul O’Keefe – 28 Feb 2011
Hi Sherallee, Thanks for the idea for one of us to write a book, Firstly I’m not a Kelly Descendant, but a Hart Descendant. But I think I could speak for all the “Kelly Gang Descendants” Yes, Yes, Yes… We are sick to death of all the myths and rumours that have been spread around for over 130 years. I think I’ve heard them all, from Steve and Dan hiding in the cellar to escape the flames of the burning inn, Dan going to the gallows instead of Ned, Ned taking off to America, Dan singeing his initials on his own arse and eventually dying in Ipswich QLD, Steve dying in WA of syphilis , Dan and Steve fighting as British soldiers in the Boar War, Steve and Dan sailed to NZ, lets not forget all those rumours that the Kelly Gang were gay and cross dressers. Believe it or not there’s even a nutter academic that told me he believes Ned was the second coming of Christ! Yes, It would be great to write a book from the families perspective. I must also agree with Lola though, that whatever we did write would be dismissed or heavily criticised just as oral history by many. It has been the case for years when we have challenged historians/academics theories contained in numerous books/papers and then when the internet age came, articles posted on various websites. I have added a page on my website of a recent find that will challenge/support many views, hopefully this will go some way towards reestablishing the credibility of our proud oral history. Cheers Paul O’Keefe. P.S. Mark and Sherallee, If I ever write a book I will send you both one for free!
Ned on the Radio
From: Lisa – 26 Feb 2011
A radio show about Ned. I wonder what this will be like? Comedy… Can’t wait…
Kelly Gang site upgraded
From: Lisa – 24 Feb 2011
I recently saw this article regarding the upgrade at Stringybark Creek. I know there has always been alot of debate over whether it is infact the right site or not (I think only Ned & the boys are the ones who would truly ever know exactly where everything happened), but there has certainly been alot of hard work done there to put in the paths & signage etc. Seeing it made me think of Glenrowan. It would be great for something like that (on a smaller scale ofcourse) to be done at the Siege Site. Before the dig (which I think was pretty disrespectful) was done there, at least there was the lovely old peppercorn tree marking the site, along with the sign, and it seemed kind of calm & nice to just have a lovely old bush tree there (with the little ponies that were often there grazing) to mark the place of such sad & important events. But since the dig it’s just so bare & awful looking. Nothing was put back to how it was,except for the sign, though it laid on the ground for ages. It’s very sad really. I understand that the site is privately owned & everything, but it would be really great to have an established tree planted back there again, perhaps with a plaque on it. Another peppercorn tree or maybe a flowering gum tree? I’m sure if a donation tin or something similar were set up at one of the shops like Kate’s Cottage that many people would donate to have something like that done at the site. It is horrible for it to be left as it currently is, just a bare paddock. Such a historic site deserves much better. I heard a murmur that some of the local Glenrowan nutbags suggested a drive-through bottle shop built like the Jones Inn be erected on the site…
re. Ned Myths and Rumours
From: Sherallee Schubert – 21 Feb 2011
I would have to agree with the Kelly decendants who are probably sick of the myths and rumours that have been discussed and published over the years. I am not a decendant (I wish I was!) but I think people should shut up and if they can not learn something about the Kelly gang and their families that was true, well then stop making up stories. The kellys are a very important part of our Australian history and people will never lose interest in the story of the gang and appreciate what Ned was trying to achieve in his short life time. I just hope that the decendants relise that Ned Kelly is a much loved Australian and anything to do with Ned is always valued no matter how small it seems, including stories true or false. May I suggest that one of the decendants should write a book on what really happened. That would be the only way that the public gets the truth. But I do understand that I would not like a book published about my family although I do not have a decendant as famous and loved as Ned. I always think of how Ned wanted everyone to know his side of the story. We know that because of the Camron letter and the Jerilderie letter. So I imagine that Ned can not get the smile off his face sitting up there knowing that so many people are on his side. Ellen Hollows can I please ask you what decendant you are from the Kelly family? Thats all I ask of you. Thankyou. I have a feeling Ellen has answered a question like this before…
Contemporary cartoon of Kelly gang and police
From: Ann McGrath – 19 Feb 2011
Hi – Your website is wonderful! Now I have a question for something I’m writing. I recall seeing a cartoon depicting the police sleeping and the Kelly gang taunting them between some trees nearby. There was an Aboriginal woman on the ground who was the only one awake and aware the gang were there. I presume it was published in a newspaper at the time of the police chase. However I can’t work out how to find it quickly. (I have heard the police in hammocks story etc – was this possibly near Stringybark Creek?) Any clues welcome! I would like to get a copy of it. I once had it, but don’t ask me where it’s gone. I thought it was a bit odd having the Aboriginal woman there, too. I am aware of the trackers from Qld but they were all men. Thanks so much. That’s news to me but I’m sure someone out there would have seen it, if it exists!
Another Ned Exhibition
From: Michele Eve – 17 Feb 2011
I was really pleased to hear as Lisa said that the armour is all to be together again in Canberra – feels like a step in the right direction to it being a permanent thing. I did hear a rumour that some of the stuff might be travelling back to Dublin afterwards- I see the exhibition is also sponsored by the Irish embassy. I’d be interested to hear if anyone knows anything more about that, I am sure Ryan Air will be more than happy to relieve me of some English pounds.
From: Lisa – 6 Feb 2011
I just wondered if anyone knew why the ‘Fight Site sign’ was taken down years ago? We were there when Ian Jones gave a talk at the site and the sign was put up on the banks of Spring Creek marking the place near where Ned and Wild Wright had their boxing match. But on our next visit a while later the sign was gone and has never been put back up since. Why? Why indeed…
Another Ned Exhibition
From: Lisa – 30 Jan 2011
There is an exhibition (opening on St Patricks Day) at the National Library in Canberra about the Irish in Australia, it’s called Not Just Ned. It sounds really good, especially as all 4 of the boys armour will be together again, that’s really great so soon after Beechworth too. Unfortunately though Brad, I read on the museums page the following – ‘Photography and filming of objects on loan and temporary exhibitions is not allowed.’ Argh Why? Maybe they don’t want anyone to know they got ripped off $10,000 for buying a dodgy death mask from a bloke who should have known better (more on that story soon…)
The Last Outlaw
From: Jacquelyn – 28 Jan 2011
Hi … I want to buy The Last Outlaw with John Jarratt. I don’t see a box to click on to purchase it. Can you help me? Well, we don’t actually sell that DVD which is why you can’t find it in our Shop
Ned Kelly’s Rifle
From: John – 25 Jan 2011
I have a friend who has a rifle reportedly owned by Ned Kelly, it has the initials E.K scratched into it, I have extensive pictures of this and it has also been in a museum collection in South Australia, I was wondering if you would be interested in looking at pictures and all the info we have on this item , to see what you think. Your friend’s name isn’t Ian is it?
The Glenrowen Seige Train
From: Keith Marshall – 8 Jan 2011
hello i am wonting to know of the type of steam train that would of been used at the glenrowen 1880 kelly gang show down that kelly wonted to derail if known or the type of steam train that would of been used at the time if you had any photos of the train or had any links to photos of the train and cariges used for police transport as i am doing some reasurch for a short film of the kelly gangs last stand for i geuse ortherniticity. any help would be greatly thankfull Lucky you’re not working on a movie about spelling and grammar…
From: Alan Crichton – 23 Dec 2010
Festive Greetings Brad, to you and your family, and all of the other IronOutlaw friends and loyal Nedites out there. From Ros and myself, we wish you all a very Merry Christmas and a happy and most prosperous New Year. Thanks for all your input this year Big Al…
re. Constable Robert Graham
From: Mick Fitzsimons – 18 Dec 2010
Graham, the Robert Henry GRAHAM you mention was born at (by marriage Index), Lake Hindmarsh near Jeparit, close to the S.A. boarder, or Geelong by baptism registration. He was the son of Jared GRAHAM and Ann AGNEW. Robert married 1874, Mary Jane JACO (not Jacka), b. 1851, Penzance, Cornwall, daughter of Charles Kelynack JACO and Alice Bartle HORSWELL. I have more on this family if you would like it.
re. Constable Robert Graham
From: Alan Crichton – 16 Dec 2010
Robert Graham, the officer who eventually helped bring peace to the North East had seven children to Mary Kirk. Chancey Burgett b. 1881 at Moyhu; Francis Jane b. 1884 at Shepparton, married a Thompson and died 1956 in Melbourne; Albert Edward b.1886 at Shepparton, married Lila Elizabeth Gallaher in 1920; Robert William b. 1888 at Shepparton; Ruby Adelaide ‘Alice’ born 1890 at Shepparton, married in 1919 Harold Stanley Fordyce and died in 1974 at Baronia; NormanVictor in 1894 at Warrnambool, died 1933 at Mitcham, and Irene Doris born in 1896 at Warrnambool who married William Bish in 1914 and later married a Smuthwaite and died in 1982. There was also another Robert Graham who was a selector and Kellysympathiser living at Glenrowan. He was born at Heidelburg, Melbourne in 1847. He married a Mary Dinning. They had two children, Robert Alexander in 1880 at Moyhu and John Hunter born 1883 at Greta. In 1891 the family moved to New Zealand. (Justin Corfield’s Ned Kelly Encyclopaedia)
Constable Robert Graham
From: Graham Powell – 15 Dec 2010
I am interested to know if my great great grandfather was the Constable Robert Graham who distinguished himself. My relative was Robert Henry Graham married to Mary Jane Jacka. Robert died at Euroa in 1902. There is a bit of a family history connection with the mounted police I think. Would be very grateful for any information. If Fitzpatrick had have been replaced by Graham at the start, the whole Kelly outbreak would probably not have happened!
Ned on the train to Beechworth
From: Lisa – 12 Dec 2010
I’ve always loved that great sketch of Ned sitting in the train carriage, looking out the window on his way to Beechworth for his Preliminary Trial. Whenever I look at it I always wonder what he was thinking at that moment.It’s a lovely picture,but a sad one too, because he looks so lonely. It makes me smile though to think of McIntyre’s comment about Ned (on that day) where he said that when the train went past the ruins of the Inn at Glenrowan, that Ned started laughing,as if remembering something from that day. I wonder what that thought he had would have been too. Perhaps it was a funny comment from Joe he remembered, or just some little incident that made him laugh that day. Either way ,it’s good to think of him laughing then. Dear Ned.
Photos from Beechworth
From: Kathryn – 8 Dec 2010
Hello Re my previous post about Aaron Sherritt being connected to the family I have a few photos of men from Beechworth that were in a family album. There are no names on the back of the photos and the photos are from Beechworth. I thought I should upload them and see if they are of any one of any importance. Are there any photos of Aaron Sherritt available so I can compare just in case. There’s a photo of Aaron the Kelly Family & Friends section
re. Isaiah Wright’s Final Resting Place
From: Joe D – 8 Dec 2010
Fitzy, RE: Isaiah’s death date is as follows: 27-May-1911. I have been working on the movements of wild Wright now for just on 11 months and in the course of my research I have been able to dig up Isaiah’s place and date of death, along with other bits and pieces. Not much is known about Isaiah’s movements. However saying this there are two possible sites where it is believed Isaiah is buried! I plan to do some field work the NT in the New Year and upload my findings on the net……pic’s & facts. Stinger, I also don’t believe Isaiah went on to become a prize fighter, & also it would have been a much better death if wild Wright died of his reckless (youthful) ways rather than falling victim to Malaria.
re. Isaiah Wright’s Final Resting Place
From: Mick Fitzsimons – 5 Dec 2010
G’day Amy, Newcastle Waters is a 10,353 sq. km. Cattle Station and part of the Consolidate Pastoral Company with holding of over 5,000,000 hectares (12,353,000 acres). The Chief Executive Officer who has been at Newcastle Waters for 30 years has never heard of Isaiah ‘Wild’ Wright, though he does say there are some 200 unmarked graves on the property. Just a query on your death date of 27-May-1911, as I have it as 29-Feb-1910/11. I wonder which is correct.
re. Isaiah Wright’s Final Resting Place
From: Peter (Stinger) Nettleton – 4 Dec 2010
Hi Amy, I too am interested in the career of Isaiah post-Glenrowan. I don’t think he hung around to give evidence at the Royal Commission, although it could have been useful. I also don’t think he went on to be a champion prize-fighter, although no doubt he could have done if he wanted to. From what I can gather, ‘Wild’, along with other Kelly supporters, including various members of the Byrne clan, headed north, looking for work as a stockman in the Goulburn area. In the late 1880s, he joined the ‘overlanders’, being that highly adventurous group of Irish-Australian cattlemen who decided to drove a huge herd of beef cattle across north-eastern New South Wales and south-eastern Queensland into the untamed wilderness of the Northern Territory and eventually the Kimberley. Along the way, ‘Wild’ would have found ample opportunity to pit his couage against all manner of challengers, not the least of which would have been the traditional owners of the land, who fought ferociously to exclude interlopers. I also understand that Isaiah settled in the Territory, married and had a family. I’m not sure whether he died of old age, or whether his reckless youth eventually caught up with him, although it would be fitting if it was the latter. Anyway Amy, you probably already knew all this and more. Sorry I can’t answer your specific question, however I and I am sure other frequenters of this website would be interested in hearing more of your “broader project”. Thank you.
The Last Outlaw DVD
From: Greg Parish – 25 Nov 2010
Do you have this DVD in Stock or direct me to someone who might have one for sale. Regards. I’d try JB Hi-Fi or EzyDVD or if you want to splash out $100 you can pick up a copy from the Beechworth Telegraph…
Isaiah Wright’s Final Resting Place
From: Amy Ruse – 23 Nov 2010
Hi there, I’m doing some research into Isaiah “Wild” Wright as part of a broader project and I’d like to know if anyone has any idea where he is buried? I know he died 27 May 1911 apparently at Newcastle Waters, NT. Any further information would be greatly received.
Ned’s 2010 Anniversary
From: Janice Shipley – 15 Nov 2010
Have just returned this morning from Melb; where we visited and payed our respects to “NED” 130 yrs gone …his memory not only lives on…but the legend grows even stronger…viewing all the floral tributes, poems and cards laying on the trap door ,bore testiment to his greatness …the two actors that did a little re enactment were wonderful…a legend forever.
re. Hello from Brazil
From: Sherallee Schubert – 15 Nov 2010
Hi Adriana, I am so glad as many Ned fans would be that you are enjoying reading about our Aussie hero but the book you have been reading I would strongly suggest you take it with a pinch of salt. Not that the book doesn’t kind of reflect how hard life was for the young Ned but if you want full on hard facts and the full TRUE story and not some glorified fairy tale then I suggest you get a copy of Ian Jones ‘A Short life’ You will not be disappointed. I myself have 12 books on Ned and I still don’t think they would cover every detail of his interesting life. There are many web sites that provide interesting material on Ned and his family and the people in his life. As you get to ‘know’ Ned you relise what an amazing human being he was and feel proud of what he believed in and what he stood up for. Even though some thin gs he did were villainous you just have to remember how life was so hard in the 1870s. Enjoy Adriana, you have just become a ‘Kelly sympathiser!’
Hello from Brazil
From: Edson Avelar – 13 Nov 2010
I’m Adriana, from Brazil. I’m studying English and reading a Peter Carey’s book that tells the History of Ned Kelly. Actually, Ned Kelly is fascinating! Thanks.
From: Lisa – 11 Nov 2010
Rest in Peace dear brave Ned. You will never ever be forgotten.
Always remember our Ned
From: Sherallee Schubert – 11 Nov 2010
I hope all you Ned Kelly fans stood for a minutes silence on the 11 Nov at 10am Vic time, 9am QLD time. (I live in QLD) I did. Let our Ned never die. It is said that when you die you die 3 times. The first is when you draw your last breath. The second is when your body turns to dust. The third is when your name is spoken for the last time. That means then that Ned will NEVER completely die! So long as we will always remeber him and talk about him. God rest you mate.
Something for the Weekend?
From: Lisa – 25 Oct 2010
I enjoyed reading Michele Eve’s report (and Mollie Schollum’s poem) on the Ned Kelly Weekend. It made me laugh to read her describe ‘the least friendly visitor guide I have ever encountered’, I’m betting this is the same person we encountered while visiting the boys armour too. I mean, why bother volunteering & getting dressed and everything up if you’re just going to be stone faced and unfriendly to people. Unbelievable. To borrow words from Ned, this person certainly looked to be a mean article. I have to say that I have been surprised at how few reports & articles there have been about the weekend, I thought there would have been alot more. Even The Ovens & Murray Advertiser only had a small half page write up afterwards, which didn’t mention much at all about it. For such a big event, the Armour, the Anniversary and The Last Outlaw cast, it has been overall very quiet as far as reports etc go. I read too that next year’s NK Weekend will most likely be focusing on the pop culture of Ned Kelly. hmmm.
re. Aaron Sherritt
From: Mick Fitzsimons – 24 Oct 2010
G’day Kathryn, There was a Beel who married Anna Bartsh a relative of Aaron Sherritt. I have compiled a tree on the Sherritt family, so if you would like to contact me via e-mail I may be able to help you out.
re. Aaron Sherritt
From: Anthony Smit – 24 Oct 2010
RE Aaron Sherritt Hi Kathryn, According to Justin Corfield’s encyclopedia, Aaron Sherrit’s sister Julia had two children who were both married to members of the Beel family. Her daughter Anna married George Beel in 1922 and her son Frederick married Emma Beel in 1927. Hope this helps.
From: Kathryn Jones-Lucas – 20 Oct 2010
Years ago I was told our family was related to Ned Kelly through our Barton family but I was unable to find the connection. I have now found out we are related to Aaron Sherritt a member of the Kelly gang that was killed by Joe Byrne. This is through the Elmer and Beel family (Lily Elmer/William Beel).
re. Ellen Grace Lloyd
From: Robert McGarrigle – 18 Oct 2010
Mr Foley, the young girl mentioned in your post is Ellen Grace Lloyd the daughter of my grt.grt. grandparents Tom Lloyd Snr. and his wife Jane(nee Quinn), Ellen is also a cousin of the Kelly siblings as Jane is Ellen Kellys sister. You are correct in saying the offence was carried out near Lurg,on the Lurg to Winton Road.Unfortunately her younger brother William was a witness to this terrible happening and it would have been an awful experience for him. Gruesome beyond comprehension…
Ellen Grace Lloyd
From: Michael Foley – 17 Oct 2010
Whilst doing research for a project on the Lilydale to Warburton railway, I came across this article in the Lilydale Express from 25th January, 1890. I’m guessing the Larg State School mentioned should be possibly the Lurg State School. Here is the full text:
SHOCKING TRAGEDY NEAR BENALLA
Brutal Murder Of Young Girl And Suicide Of The Murderer There was great excitement in Wangaratta on Wednesday night when it became known that a terrible murder had taken place at Greta, a place situated about fifteen miles from Wangaratta, and the home of the notorious Kelly gang. The information to hand was meager, it being merely known that a girl named Grace Lloyd, eleven and a half years old, a daughter of Thomas Lloyd, farmer, of Glenrowan, had been found with her throat cut, also the body of a man named George Lambert, employed by Mr. Lloyd, had been found about 35 yards away, also with is throat cut from ear to ear. Sergeant Steele, accompanied by Constable Blade, proceeded late on Wednesday night to Lloyd’s house, and instituted enquiries. Sergeant Steele returned to Wangaratta on Thursday morning, and states that the murdered child and her little brother were returning from the Larg State School, when Lambert, who met them on the road, caught the girl and dragged her to a clump of trees inside a paddock. The little fellow was too far behind to notice what took place, but the next he saw was his sister struggling to the fence with her throat cut. Mrs. Lloyd states that Lambert asked her if she had anything for him to do. She said no, and then he employed himself stropping a razor, Mrs. Lloyd thinking he was going to have a shave. Lambert after sharpening the razor, said “I will go and fetch the cows”, and went down the paddock where he in all probability awaited the coming of the unfortunate girl. The hat of the girl, covered in blood, was found about thirty yards inside the paddock, and also the handle of the razor, the blade being half broken off. Lambert was a newly arrived Englishman, and from letters found upon him, he appears to be well connected at Home. He was a strong, muscular man, about five feet nine inches high, 25 years of age, and had a pleasing face. Grace Lloyd, although not 12 years old, was very big for her years, and looked more like a girl of 17 or 18. Her mother is a sis ter of Mrs. Kelly, and consequently Grace was a full cousin to the notorious Ned and Dan Kelly. An inquest on the body was held by Mr. C.L. Dobbin, P.M., on Thursday afternoon, which showed that Lambert had premeditated the act. He was fond of the girl and wished to die with her. A letter was found in his possession showing that he intended that they should, as he expressed it, reach Heaven together. A medical examination showed that there was no trace of violence on the girl.
Roast Lamb, Peas & a Bottle of Claret – Such is Life’
From: Evan – 14 Oct 2010
Here is something your readers may be interested in ‘Roast Lamb, Peas & a Bottle of Claret – Such is Life’ on the 130th anniversary of Ned’s last night in the Gaol. Commemorate his last meal with a unique dinner and a ‘Such a Life’ performance at the Old Melbourne Gaol. PRICE: $120 – Includes three course dinner. Earlybird Discount: $40 discount for bookings made before 30 September. DATE: Wednesday 10 November TIME: 6:30 – 9.00pm Bookings Essential – call 03 8663 7228. I think the discount no longer applies (and personally I’m a Shiraz type of guy)…
re. Beechworth Weekend Leftovers
From: Grant Collie – 7 Oct 2010
Cheers Alan, I won’t prolong this discussion other than to say you are no doubt aware that I have only been in post since June and therefore could not have had any influence either way on the decision. best wishes Grant Grant who?
re. Beechworth Weekend Leftovers
From: Alan Crichton – 7 Oct 2010
Thanks for clarifying the reasoning behind the Last Outlaw DVD prices Grant, but as the Manager of the Burke Museum and Historic Precinct, if you had fought for the Burke and its rights as a museum to exhibit the Kelly Gang Armour in the first place at this years Ned Kelly Weekend, maybe you wouldn’t have been reduced to flogging off $600 DVDs to make the extra bucks. Warm regards, Alan Crichton.. Indigo Shire Rate Payer. I’m raiding the kid’s piggy bank for that one!
re. Beechworth Weekend Leftovers
From: Grant Collie – 5 Oct 2010
Just to clarify on the DVD sales for those quick to comment but perhaps not good at reading details. The last 5 DVD’s that we had to sell were all autographed by the cast during the weekend as fundraisers for the Burke Museum and as such were always going to be auctioned for more than the basic cost. The $600 auction includes our last signed copy, a weekend with meals at the Nicholas Hotel, Beechworth Golden Tickets (which get you into all of the Historic Precinct and the Burke Museum plus access to the walking tours) Tickets for Beechworth Ghost Tours and other items to make it a full weekend experience here in Beechworth. Hope this clarifies it and I look forward to welcoming the auction winner to Beechworth. Warm regards Grant Collie, Manager – Burke Museum and Beechworth Historic Precinct. Caveat emptor…
re. Beechworth Weekend Leftovers
From: Lisa – 3 Oct 2010
Agreed.There is another signed copy of the dvd currently for auction on ebay with a starting bid of $600! There’s just no loyalty! Honour amongst thieves?
Letter to Tom
From: Michele Eve – 29 Sep 2010
I have just sat down to read Alan’s letter to McIntyre and wanted to say what a brilliant read it is. Especially liked this part “Might I also ad, that from what I have read in your memoirs, I believe you to be every bit as honest and heroic as that Constable Fitzpatrick. It’s very lucky for those Kellys you did not have your polished sword with you at Stringybark Creek good McIntyre. I’m sure if you did, and with your unbelievable pluck, you could have quite easily vanquished them all.” Inspired form really, to allow opinions rather than just the indubitable facts. Thanks to Lisa for kind words about Hard as Stone. I was sorry to hear of the death of David Consiglio, though of course I didn’t know him, it takes a special sort of person to take on something like that house. Condolences to his family.
Beechworth Weekend Leftovers
From: Alan Crichton – 28 Sep 2010
It didn’t take’m long, did it. Some of those so called dedicated people who were drawn to the Ned Kelly Weekend this year? A signed copy of The Last Outlaw D.V.D being flogged off for $117.00 on E Bay barely a week after the weekend had finished. Just makes me wanna puke! Probably being sold to one of those suckers who paid $100 for the DVD from outside the Telegraph Station instead of $15 from Big W…
re. Burman Photos
From: Mick Fitzsimons – 27 Sep 2010
Thank for your reply Alan and apologies for the late response as I’ve been doing a little research on the subject. According to one of the drawings of the scene, the Standing man is McIntyre warning Kennedy and Scanlon to throw down their arms. This however does not fit with McIntyre’s story (and there were many different ones), and his maps of where everyone was and the direction. At present, I’m trying to make my own determination of where the shooting actually too place, hence my interest. Also, according the Jerilderie Letter, Joe and Steve were not present at either gun battle. Ned states that only he and Dan went to the police camp, after all they did only have two guns between the four of them. Joe and Steve came after they heard the shot by Ned that killed Lonigan. Joe and Steve then returned to their camp, presumedly armed by this time with police weapons, in case another police party found their hut.
re. Passing of David Consiglio. Owner of the Kelly House at Beveridge
From: Mick Fitzsimons – 27 Sep 2010
A lovely tribute Noeleen! My deepest sympathy also goes out to the Consiglio family at this tragic time for them. R.I.P.
Passing of David Consiglio. Owner of the Kelly House at Beveridge
From: Noeleen Lloyd – 25 Sep 2010
Many of the visitors to this site have visited the Kelly house at Beveridge and been made welcome by the owners of the property, David and Sharon Consiglio. Tragically David died, aged 38, earlier in September whilst overseas. David leaves his wife Sharon and two very young daughters (under 5). He was buried on Friday. This young couple have worked tirelessly to ensure that the house did not deteriorate and were continually lobbying the funding bodies to provide more assistance for maintenance and preservation. David was a kind and generous man, who never said “no” to those of us who wanted to go in behind the fence. He deserves to be remembered for not only being a loved family member, but also a fine community minded man who knew that they had a huge job with the house, but took it on anyway. He was committed to his part in preserving Australian history. My respect to David and deepest sympathy to the Consiglio family. “Go softly David…” Noeleen Lloyd (also on behalf of several other family members) R.I.P.
Hard As Stone
From: Lisa – 22 Sep 2010
Wow! Another great writing from Michele Eve. I can really picture Joe while reading these chapters. I look forward to the next one. Really wonderful. Thinking back to the days (not too long before) when they were swimming in the dams and larking about together at the Woolshed Valley, they would never have believed in a million years that their friendship would have ended the way it did. So sad.
re. Burman Photos
From: Alan Crichton – 21 Sep 2010
Mick, this was in the Argus re evidence from McIntyre. The bloke kneeling behind the log with the rifle has got to be Ned Kelly. When the others arrived, McIntyre was allowed to walk approximately 10 yards to meet them. Maybe this figure looking back to the other two represents McIntyre also, and shows where he was standing when Kennedy and Scanlon arrived. “When Kennedy and Scanlan left the camp it was with the view of reconnoitring and determining their exact position. There had been a difference of opinion as to what creek it was they had encamped at, some of them thinking that it was Holland’s Creek, and others that it was one of the sources of the King River. It was their intention, having ascertained their position, to strike eastward, and form their next camp on the King River. They believed that they were fully 20 miles from the Kellys, as they had information that they were to be found in the ranges near Greta. Between their tent and the creek and a little to the left were two fallen trees, one lying over the other at right angles. In the angle facing the tent McIntyre, on Saturday afternoon, kindled a large fire to make the night cheerful. After he had prepared tea at a small fire at a stump of a tree nearer the tent, he was standing in front of the large fire whilst Lonigan stood in the opposite angle of the fallen tr ees. The four miscreants suddenly emerged from tall grass on the right of the camp, and advanced in skirmishing order. Edward Kelly was the man on the extreme right of the line, and consequently nearest to the policeman. The events which followed and the shooting of Lonigan need not be again described, but as some persons ask why McIntyre, on seeing Lonigan fall, did not spring forward to seize his revolver, and make a fight, it may be well to point out that the fire and fallen trees intervened between him and Lonigan, and that in addition to this the desperadoes advanced upon him immediately with levelled guns, and would have shot him on the spot if he had stirred. Ned Kelly appropriated all the firearms about the camp before he would allow McIntyre to lower his hands. When Kennedy and Scanlan were approaching, the leader of the gang, Edward Kelly, placed one of his men in the tent, stationed his brother Daniel and the other ruffian in the tall grass already referred to, and concealed himself within the angle of the fallen trees where Lonigan was shot. He ordered McIntyre to sit upon the cross-tree, and told him that one of his rifles was for him, and that if he did not act as directed he “would make a hole in him.” “All four of us were on horseback, and armed. When we reached Stringybark Creek, we camped in an open place which had been previously used as a camping-ground, there being the remains of a hut there. The country was thickly wooded, and there were a number of fallen logs lying about at the time. The photograph (produced) of the locality is a correct one. The open space was about an acre or two in extent”.
The John Barry Memorial Lecture
From: Ellen Hollow – 21 Sep 2010
The John Barry Memorial Lecture Ned Kelly, John Barry and the Role of Social Activism in Criminal Justice Reform 130th Anniversary of the Execution of Ned Kelly Peter Norden is a Vice Chancellor’s Fellow at the University of Melbourne. Based in the Melbourne Law School, he is working on issues of social justice and human rights, reflecting on the last thirty years of his social involvement and public advocacy. Thursday, 11 November 2010 6.00 – 7.15pm Public Lecture Theatre Old Arts Building The University of Melbourne PARKVILLE VIC 3010 Admission is free. Bookings are required. Seating is limited. To register click here. For further information please contact Tamsin Courtney on 8344 8985
From: Mick Fitzsimons – 17 Sep 2010
Does anyone know if there is an official interpretation/explanation of the Burman photos? As they were taken as evidence, there should be some documentation explaining orientation and whom the figures represent (especially the one standing), and where the creek is situated. I’ve read many interpretations, though none of historical fact. Going by McIntyre’s many versions, the standing figure is in the direction the Kelly Gang advanced from. He also states that he was looking “down” the creek for his comrades’ return. As the creek flows from north to south, Mc.Intyre would have to have been facing north in the direction the creek flowed. I have been trying to locate such a document and if it exists (which it should), is proving very elusive to find. Brad you are probably correct about Peter Lalor not raising one of his 4 fingers to help Ned. It appears his whole attitude changed once in parliament, even trying to use cheap Chinese labour to break strikers at a Clunes mine where he was a director. Ah, the shame of it all!
re. An Interesting New Political Landscape
From: Mick Fitzsimons – 9 Sep 2010
G’day Stinger, I’m a bit confused by your posting regarding the Greens! I agree with the rest of what you say, though if you are inferring the Greens will help with that then I must be amongst the bewildered. Firstly Queen Gillard has promised hat she will serve a full term with an unworkable alliance, so she cannot seek an early election. Personally, I am in agreement with 80% of Aussies that we should have had another election, so those fools who wasted their vote by either voting informal or voting for the Greens without knowing what their policies entailed, will take the election seriously and vote for what is best for them and the country. On the subject of a Republic, with the last referendum, the Republican Movement shot themselves in the foot, by putting too many models forward, which only confused the issue. Personally I feel the system we have works well (with the exception of the last election), so why can’t we keep the same basic principle and rename our Prime Minister, President. We need a Governor General to maintain a balance of power and I see nothing wrong with the title, although that could be changed. Aussies don’t like too much change, so if these points were taken into consideration and presented to the public, it could sway the population in favour of a Republic. Our Australian national identity is dying because of political correctness; a thing that I never thought would overtake this country. But alas, we have had state and federal governments who have enforced this in law. This same political correctness will not allow Ned and those like him to be given their right status in our history, because they never survived and went into parliament like Peter Lalor, who led the Eureka Rebellion. We can only wonder what would have happened if Ned had a fair trial and had been acquitted and entered parliament what the state of this country would now be in! My guess, is a lot better than it is now. I never read anywhere about Peter Lalor raising a finger to help Ned Kelly with his reprieve so as far as I’m concerned Lalor was as useless as ‘tits on a bull’…
An Interesting New Political Landscape
From: Peter (Stinger) Nettleton – 8 Sep 2010
Despite the media hooha, as far as I’m concerned, the Federal election was decided 17 days ago. The Greens won! I predict that, after the Indie hullabaloo has died down, the pollies will start looking at other long-neglected programs with an eye to an early fresh election. Therefore, I suggest it is timely for all ‘Ned-nerds’ to rally to the cause and start campaigning for recognition of the importance of the Kelly legend in the panoply of Australian national identity, republicanism and mateship. First and foremost, we must strive for the preservation of all the rapidly deteriorating Kelly sites, such as the homesteads, battlegrounds and graveyards. I also appeal to all the descendants and supporters to throw open the figurative windows and let some fresh air into family histories, eschew threats of carnivalism and if not take the lead, at least support this call to arms.
re. Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire! (Constable Hall)
From: Peter (Stinger) Nettleton – 30 Aug 2010
I hope there aren’t any Hall descendants frequenting this site, because he doesn’t come out of the history smelling too sweetly at all. Hall also features in the Harry Power story. One sunny day in early 1870, Harry (having earlier acquired 2 bottles of brandy and no doubt lit up like the proverbial Christmas tree) bailed up Hall’s Broadford subordinate, one Const Tighe, who was taking a couple of police horses (probably ones Hall had worn out) to the farriers in Seymour for reshoeing. Power relieved Tighe of his revolver and wallet, but (uncharacteristically) didn’t bother with the horses. He told Tighe that he was thinking of shooting a couple of police to warn them off. This of course was all bluff on Harry’s part – one of the reasons Ellen Kelly described him as a ‘brown-paper bushranger’. He would have done Tighe and many more a big favour however had he carried out that threat against Hall. Later, Hall was furious with Tighe for giving up his gun to Power and thereafter conducted a campaign to have him drummed out of the force, which he succeeded in doing, much to the dismay of the citizens of Broadford, a highly respected member of whose community Tighe was. Hall however had found an ally in Supt Hare, whose name also lives on in infamy. Tighe was ruined financially and emotionally. His children ended up begging in the streets and he died a broken man not long afterwards. Seeing Hall shot blanks I doubt he has any descendants…
Ned Kelly Discussion Group
From: Jason Nitz – 26 Aug 2010
G’day Brad, I just wanted to let you and all your website followers know I’ve started a Google Discussion Group on Ned and the Gang. I’ve done this for several reasons but mainly as I can’t find a good discussion site that allows for traditional discussion (i.e. ‘tree’ view reading of threads etc). Your feedback page is a great resource and I’ve spent the past few days reading through the archives on various topics, many of which show the passion of those who contribute. I certainly don’t want to detract from your Feedback page so I hope there is a way to combine the two through some mutual referencing or the like. I’m no Kelly expert by a long shot; just an interested person who has read most of the suggested reads and who also enjoys Australian history, particularly in Victoria. I’m the owner of the group only because Goo gle requires one person to do this – I’m more than happy if others would like to become administrators as well (just email me). Google Groups are free (another reason I chose it) but it also offers some great functionality. The address is groups.google.com.au/group/ned-kelly Hope to see some of you there and some robust discussions held for one and all. Who’ll be the first to post a discussion topic?
re. Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire!
From: Lisa – 22 Aug 2010
Thanks Brad, Alan and Mick. It is very interesting and frustrating to see that things unfortunately haven’t changed. It is rotten that the corrupt police give them all a bad name, it is very unfair for the honest Police who really do their duty properly. I guess that now, just like then, we need a lot more Robert Graham’s and far less Fitzpatrick’s. Just regarding Hall, it always makes me laugh how one of the papers said something like that when he was transferred alot of people were glad to see him go, and that the horses (because of his weight) were even happier. Hee Hee !
re. Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire!
From: Robert McGarrigle – 22 Aug 2010
The standards of police in Victoria must be even worse than up here in NSW. Like Fitzy I have had personal involvement with them also. You only have to look at your ex. police commissioner Nixon, we couldn’t get rid of her quick enough up here and look at her brilliant efforts in Victoria. Ha. Ha. I hope you guys get a decent replacement because surely you can do a lot better.
re. Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire!
From: Mick Fitzsimons – 22 Aug 2010
Unfortunately Lisa, Brad is correct. Not much has changed with the Victorian Police Force and we are supposed to have one of the better ones in this country. I could write a book on the incompetence and corruption of the police in the area I live in, not to mention other places. They will cover each other’s backs no matter what! I have even been warned by a prominent barrister of the consequences of being too vocal against the Victorian Police. These consequences can be abrupt and final. And just for the record, I’ve never been on the wrong side of the law, just going into bat for others, or injustices I have witnessed with my own eyes. We have a Police Force that has to ensure it’s own safety before that of the public, so if there is a chance they could get hurt, they are not to get involved. So what is the point of having them at all?
re. Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire!
From: Alan Crichton – 22 Aug 2010
Yes Lisa, Mr Hall is a good example of a rogue copper. When posted at ElDorado, he was the centre of a riot there and bashed the living daylights out of a prisoner who used to be a copper himself. Hall was then quickly moved on to Broadford. He then got into more trouble and ended up in Greta and into even more trouble as you have already stated. When Hall left Greta in 1871, Laurence O’Brien presented Hall with 20 sovereigns as a token of the esteem in which he had been held by the towns people. Why 20 sovereigns? Was it a reward, or simply an appropriate 20 pieces of silver instead of 30 for a Judas? For being such a rogue, Mr Hall eventually made Sub-Inspector with the Victorian Police Force. I think that just about says it all. Oddly enough, he passed away on April Fool’s Day 1892.
re. Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire!
From: Lisa – 22 Aug 2010
And we can also definitely add the disgraceful Hall to that list, for attempted murder on Ned. How he got away with that is one of the worst things ever. It’s terrible to think that all these Policemen probably never lost a night’s sleep over what they had done. How they could perjure themselves, sit back and let the perjury go on, shoot at women and little kids, constantly lie, and harass innocent women and children in their own home. It’s unbelievable. I hate how their lives seemed to just go on like nothing happened, while Ned and the boys and their families were ruined forever. They just couldn’t care less. Some coppersare still doing it now. Take a look at Real Villains
re. Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire!
From: Mick – 18 Aug 2010
Well done, Alan! This leads to Ned having more credibility in what he said and wrote than the police, their witnesses and those who concocted stories to lighten their gaol sentences. If only more credibility was given to Ned’s declaration that he was not present at the Fitzpatrick incident. Ned may have had some misgivings, but he was not a liar or would leave others to take the blame for something he had done.
re. Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire!
From: Anthony Smit – 16 Aug 2010
To Alan and Brad, McIntyre should have gone to Old Melbourne Gaol for perjury and taken Steele with him for attempted murder on those poor women and children. Spot on!
Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire!
From: Alan Crichton – 16 Aug 2010
I’ve just recently acquired Sadleir’s Recollections of a Victorian Police Officer, and on page 187 Mr Sadleir is telling us about his interview with Thomas McIntyre just 2 days after the shootings. Mr McIntyre goes on to say… suddenly Lonigan and i heard the call to throw up our hands, and saw four armed men, partly concealed by the timber, covering us with their guns. I had no weapon but a small table fork, and i threw up my hands. Lonigan was sitting on a log, and on hearing the call to throw up his hands, he put his hands to his revolver, at the same time SLIPPING DOWN FOR COVER BEHIND THE LOG on which he had been sitting. Lonigan had his head above the level of the log AND WAS ABOUT TO USE HIS REVOLVER when he was shot through the head. Even though his Recollections was published in 1913, Sadleir seems to have no problem in remembe! ring events that happened some 50 years prior in his book. So his memory would be even sharper on events and conversations only 35 years past. Why would Sadleir corroborate in print, Ned Kelly’s version of events in 1913, when he supported McIntyre’s perjured statement in 1880 at Kelly’s trial? Why?? Because it was simply convenient for the Victorian Police at the time. Lies, vicious and corrupt statements can bring about untold consequences to those poor pitiful souls who choose to make them for their own gain and self worth. It seems even today…. McIntyre is not alone.
2010 Beechworth Ned Kelly Weekend
From: Airi – 14 Aug 2010
I have only just made it home from my extended Kelly Weekend trip and after ten days of touring the Kelly Country it’s somewhat hard to get back into everyday routine! We all loved our time in Beechworth and it would be impossible to find anything that topped seeing the four suits of armour in the one room. Don’t mind confessing that over the weekend I spent a fair bit of time in there, to the extent that people started asking me questions about the armour, obviously thinking I had to be part of the setup! I have a couple of not too bad photos of all the four suits together without any people in the picture if you are interested Brad. I enjoyed Noeleen’s talk on Ellen and the re-reading of the Kerferd Oration (the text of which you apparently have here somewhere?), and Joe Dipisa’s Sacramento talk – well done Joe! We ha! d fun getting all the cast to sign our Last Outlaw books at Saturday night’s do and I even had my photo taken with Joe Byrne… Was fantastic to be able to enjoy the weekend with my interstate and overseas friends this time and catch up with some familiar faces and meet new people as well. That new t-shirt is great Brad, wouldn’t mind a couple more of them, I hope you will sell them here too? Yep, t-shirts will be on sale by the end of the month as I’ve ordered another batch as the first lot sold out!
From: Jason Nitz – 14 Aug 2010
Brad et al, I’ve been a regular visitor to the website for quite some time, quietly sitting on the sidelines reading some of the discussions found here in Feedback. As I mentioned in a recent post, my family and I visited Beechworth for our first Ned Kelly weekend. Upon driving home to Ballarat we drove through Greta and stopped at the cemetery. My young son and wife asked where we may find Ned Kelly’s mothers grave and I told them it was unmarked. They were both shocked at this – mainly as a historical figure like her should be recognised. I then explained the reasons why, many of which have been discussed here. Whilst they could understand to some degree, they were quite shocked there may be people out there today who want to identify the graves for reasons other than to pay their respects. I believe there should be some memorial to Ellen Kelly at the cemetery, perhaps as a plaque at the entrance like those that appear on the rock to the left hand side of the gate. I imagine there wil! l many opinions on this, some from descendants who may wish to see nothing of the sort. Regardless, I’d be quite willing to chip in and start off a fund to effect this – I’d be interested to hear the thoughts of others without starting a raging debate.
re. The Armour
From: Sherallee Schubert – 12 Aug 2010
Michael, I took photos the best I could when I was at the Ned Kelly weekend up at beechworth of the 4 sets of armour together and of them seperately. Don’t know if they will be any help to you because the suits were of cause behind glass and to get them all in together in one photo was hard. I can send you the photos if it is any help to you. While I was at Beechworth I did buy a postcard with the 4 set on it as a memento of seeing the set together because it was so hard to take a personal photo of them. The town hall that they were in did not allow the room to get a photo of them looking front on of all of them together. So the pics I have of them at an angle in a line. Let me know via ironoutlaw if you want me to send the pics.
2010 Beechworth Ned Kelly Weekend
From: Lisa – 10 Aug 2010
I found this great little video Kelly Gang: Together Again showing the boy’s armour at the Ned Weekend in Beechworth. It shows Joe’s armour getting put on display. Aren’t animatronics amazing! The puppets in the video seem so life-like…
2010 Beechworth Ned Kelly Weekend
From: Jason Nitz – 10 Aug 2010
This was our first Ned Kelly weekend and we thoroughly enjoyed it. Beechworth is such a lovely place in a nice part of the world. Good to see the cast members walking around town though there was one I saw I recognised but I don’t think he was in The Last Outlaw – tall, mid 50s, long flowing silvergrey hair, has been in a few Australian showsmini-series. He was at the pub in Ford St smoking outside with Steve Bisley and Gerrard Kennedy. Maybe someone can help identify him? Also, we missed the re-enactments as they were sold out but I saw a few people with a booklet “The Trial of Ned Kelly” – I assume it was given out as part of the re-enactment. Where can I get a copy?
2010 Beechworth Ned Kelly Weekend
From: Lisa – 9 Aug 2010
The Ned Kelly weekend was brilliant! We really loved it! It was absolutely INCREDIBLE to see all the boys armour together in Kelly Country, it truly is something extremely special to see them in person. We made the most of them being there and went to see them three times over the weekend. The way the armour was set out and displayed was very well done, it was wonderful to be able to look at them all from every angle. The weather was beautiful and the crowd was really good. Noeleen Allen’s talk about Mrs Kelly & the Kelly girls was fantastic and Peter Finlay’s reading of The Jerilderie Letter was amazing. How he has memorised the entire letter is unbelievable. The displays at The Burke Museum and The Victoria Police exhibit were really interesting too. It was fun to see so many of The Last Outlaw cast members in town, they all looked happy to be there. We were lucky enough to meet John Jarratt who was really lovely and he signed my Last Outlaw book for me, he was very funny & sweet. It was great seeing him riding the Policeman’s horse around the town too. The weekend was so much fun! A very big thank you to all the organisers. It is always sad to leave the beautiful Kelly Country and have to return to the ordinary world. Thank goodness for Ned, Joe, Dan & Steve. 🙂 P.S. It was also terrific to meet and say hello to Brad who was really lovely too, and the new Iron Outlaw t shirt is gorgeous! Thanks Brad! 🙂
From: Micheal Rowe – 9 Aug 2010
Can any one help me im looking for a photo of all four sets of armour together?
re. ‘In The Footsteps Of…?’
From: Alan Crichton – 9 Aug 2010
G’day Doug, the film is titled Footsteps of a Legend. I believe it was shot in 1980, and i was lucky enough to recently meet up with Alan French who was involved in the filming and scored a copy. There are a few minor errors but there’s some good footage of the sash and Joe’s revolver. Interesting to look at some of the locations as they were some thirty years ago. If the bloke you were talking to was half tanked with a glass of red in his hand, it was probably me. ps I think the doco also won some sort of award. Only half tanked?
2010 Beechworth Ned Kelly Weekend
From: Sherallee Schubert – 9 Aug 2010
I live on the Gold Coast and drove all the way up to Beechworth for the Ned Kelly weekend (after flying into Melbourne) and myself and my husband Anthony had an absulute ball. Was too late in knowing we were going to Beechworth to get there to get to see any of the re-anactments but that didn’t matter. Seeing the 4 sets of armour was just an opitinity of a life time I just could not miss. Especialy as Joes armour is never on public display. Also seeing the memoribilia from the Last Outlaw at the Burke museum was awsome. I met and had photos with 4 actors from the Last Outlaw, Gerard Kennedy, (Harry Power) lovely man, Steve Bisley, (Joe Byrne) John Jarratt, (Ned Kelly of cause!) he was really cheeky, and lastly David Bradshaw. (Wild Wright) David was not noticed as much as the other actors which I thought was sa! d so when I noticed him he seemed pleased and more that happy to hang around for a chat. Absulutly lovely man. I met him again with his wife also a lovely lady, in the Burke museum and he stopped for another chat! When I told him how exited I was to meet him he was so pleased and when we parted he gave me hug and a kiss! Thanks David I will treasure meeting you forever! Thankyou to all the people who put the weekend together and to the 4 actors I met especialy David Bradshaw. And to the ‘trap’ I also had my photo taken with! I will not forget this weekend ever.
‘In The Footsteps Of…?’
From: Doug Brockfield – 7 Aug 2010
We were at the Burke Museum in Beechworth last night, at the Last Outlaw screening, and a man told us about a film which GMV6 Shepparton , made in the 1980’s, called… In the Footsteps of ?? Can anyone give me any info on the film?
From: Anthony Smit – 31 Jul 2010
Ferreting around in the Kelly links recently I found out that Kelly descendant Anthony Griffiths is now the mayor of Wangaratta. Being from interstate, I wasnt aware of this till now. Congratulations Anthony on your appointment. I am sure you will run that council well and do your family proud. Just loving the thought that Sergeant Steele would be spinning in his maggoty grave. See you all next Friday. This is the same Anthony Griffiths who didn’t want to held up as a ‘prancing pony’…
re. A Letter To Thomas
From: Alan Crichton – 25 Jul 2010
Dear Lisa, I am most pleased you enjoyed my little articles on Ironoutlaw and must thank you for your kind words. I try to do my best for the proprietor, Mr. (you know who) but my labours never seem to be good enough. It is uplifting to read such words of appreciation which i accept most humbly. Just little words of encouragement are all i ask Lisa, but alas, such words will not be uttered forth from Mr. (you know who). I shall continue to try my hardest for the sake of our dedicated Ironoutlaw readers, and who knows, one day Lisa, well … that kind word i have so long been waiting for from Mr.( you know who), will most definitely bring tears to these tired old eyes. I gather you are referring to Mr Red Wine Bottle…
A Letter To Thomas
From: Lisa – 24 Jul 2010
Fantastic article. Oh it’s so frustrating even all these years later to think of McIntyre smugly standing there on oath, perjuring himself over and over again at Ned’s trials. I cannot even begin to imagine an ounce of the anger and frustration Ned must have felt listening to this man lie his life away. I bet that every time Ned smashed his fist onto the railing in protest, that he was wishing it was McIntyre’s face his fist was smashing instead. I wish it had been too. The only thing I like about McIntyre is that in his memoirs he gives one of my all time favourite descriptions of Ned. The one where he talks of watching Ned out in the Beechworth Gaol yard, combing his hair & beard, while using the water in a bucket to see his reflection in. It’s a really lovely description of him. 🙂 P.S. I also just wanted to add regarding Alan’s article over on the IronOutlaw facebook page titled – Mrs Edward Kelly? I don’t have a facebook page myself, so was unable to comment over there, so I just wanted to please post here on the main Iron Outlaw page ,at what a great read that was too. Thanks Alan. Your article’s are always very well written, funny and informative. Time to get some Facebook action Lisa…
Christine Nixon Resigns
From: Peter – 18 Jul 2010
Christine Nixon has resigned from the Bushfire Authority in Victoria. Presently looking for an empty phone box to have the send off dinner in.
re. John Kelly Real Estate
From: Joe. D – 8 Jul 2010
Hi Alan, A job well done!! FANTASTIC writing skills! I enjoyed reading your latest masterpiece … “John Kelly Real Estate”. To be honest I read it twice, looking fwd to your next piece. I still have shivers running up my spine as I write … keep up the great work.
A Righteous Call
From: Alan Crichton – 30 Jun 2010
I was most pleased this morning when I received a message on my Facebook that Mr. Wynne-Jenkins was awaiting a call from me. He had obviously read my concerns over the disappointment that had befallen me in respect to the negative response I received from the museum regarding my ticket purchase for the Wine and Cheese gathering at the Burke Museum this coming Kelly Weekend. Delighted with the opportunity to talk to the Chairman of the Friends of the Burke, who happen to be the group putting on the bash, I promptly rang him. I found Mr. Wynne-Jenkins to be a very accommodating fellow and he quickly gave me the reason for my disappointment. The attendant at the museum could have been new and simply wasn’t aware of the big bash, and has arranged for a more informed member of staff to give me a call. More than happy with his response, and not wanting to sound too presumptuous, i thought it a good time to ask him a few questions regarding the four suits of Kelly Gang Armour that have been hi-jacked by the local town hall, especially as he is the president of the Ned Kelly Weekend Organising Committee. Again Mr Wynne-Jenkins was most accommodating. He went on to explain that he wanted the Armour to go to the Burke all along. Being involved with the Burke Museum since he was fifteen, and also being the Chairman of the Friends of the Burke, he has been fighting for the rights of the museum to exhibit this National Exhibition. My next question was…Then why is it going to the town hall?? Mr. Wynne-Jenkins then pointed out that it was the State Library of Victoria and Police Museum that were not comfortable with exhibiting the Armour in a museum that did not have a manager. What I would like to know is… Who is the manager of the town hall?? But more importantly, now that a mana! ger/curator has been appointed ( more than 4 weeks ago ) by the council for the Museum and Historic Precinct, why is the Armour still going to the town hall?? Surely with almost 6 weeks before the Kelly Weekend, the event organisers still have time to talk to the trustees and change the exhibition venue. I must congratulate Mr. Wynne-Jenkins and his organising committee for the untold amount of work put in by them for the upcoming Ned Kelly Weekend, but come on Adam, you know very well that the Kelly Gang Armour Exhibition is the heart of this momentous event. You must also be aware of what is right and what is wrong, and that the heart will remain cold and silent until it has been given the chance to come alive in its rightful place…. The Robert O’Hara Burke Museum. Can anybody say, ‘Groundhog Day’?
From: Lisa – 28 Jun 2010
Rest In Peace dear Joe, Dan & Steve.
re. John Kelly Real Estate
From: Alan Crichton – 25 Jun 2010
Thank you Lisa, I am most pleased you enjoyed, and hopingly appreciated my little piece on John Kelly Real Estate. It’s a shame I will not get to meet you at the Ironoutlaw Dinner this coming Kelly Weekend. I will most likely end up having to endure the seemingly eternal company of those boisterous beer swilling oafs, Mr Webb and Mr O’Keefe. But as the great man once said … Such is life! You’ll be sound asleep by 6.30pm Crichton you old pensioner you!
John Kelly Real Estate
From: Lisa – 23 Jun 2010
Another great read from Alan Crichton. I too believe that had Mr Kelly lived to an old age, that things would have turned out very differently for Ned and the Kelly family. It really is weird to think that from one single event happening (John Kelly’s passing) so many people’s lives would have been, in all probability, so very different. He sounds like he would have been a very hard working, nice, kindly man. Reading also about what a wonderful woman Mrs Kelly was, it is no wonder that Ned got such great strengths from his Mum and Dad. I think the saddest thing of all is seeing all the incredible qualities of Ned, and knowing that he could (and should) have been anything. Like the article says too, had fate been different we probably would never had heard of this amazing man named Ned Kelly. Though in saying that, I would give up knowing about Ned in a second in exchange for him having a happy, long life. 🙂 Yes, Alan almost writes like he knows what he’s talking about!
re. Stop Press – Discovery of Ned’s Skull!
From: Christine Hicks – 22 Jun 2010
It has been pointed out to me that my post regarding Tom Baxter has caused offence and as that offence was made on this forum it is only proper that I make an apology here. I do not know Mr Baxter personally and therefore I am not in a position to make an informed assessment of his character and in a poor attempt at humour I labelled him a ‘dingbat’. I apologise for this ill-considered statement as it was not my intention to cause offence and I unreservedly withdraw that accusation. I too was offended by the word ‘dingbat’ as I always thought a better term for Baxter was ‘nutbag’…
Stop Press – Discovery of Ned’s Skull!
From: Christine Hicks – 20 Jun 2010
Did anyone catch the story in ‘The Age’ online today which proclaimed that Ned Kelly’s skull has been ‘discovered’! Here is the link. Unfortunately this seems to be a rehash of an old story about that Baxter bloke from Derby in WA who apparently claims he had somehow mysteriously ‘acquired’ Ned Kelly’s skull and has submitted it to be forensically tested. I was under the impression that this claim had been comprehensively refuted and that Baxter is a bit of a dingbat? What is the real story here – is the Vic government attempting by stealth to obtain more Kelly artefacts that are currently in private hands? Love a good conspiracy theory on a Sunday! Must be a slow news day…
1910s or 20s song: Take the ‘L’ out of Kelly?
From: Pierre Luniere – 17 Jun 2010
Hi Fellow Kelly Enthusiasts! On the search for a tune that is meant to have been hit parade material of the 1900’s through to the 20’s: Take the ‘L’ out of Kelly? This coming November, 2010, be there for the Benalla Rose festival, a weekend of fun & frivolity which will include the presentation of new photographic material on Joe Byrne & Ned Kelly in the local Art Gallery and also the dedication of a community ceramic sculpture by the lake & gallery that includes a unique musical instrument, The Thongaphone! See you There! Number 1 on the colonial charts…
re. Parkes Letter – 1879
From: Lisa – 13 Jun 2010
I’m definitely no expert either, but in my own opinion I believe the Parkes Letter to be a genuine Ned Letter too. I especially like how Ned refers to himself as Captain in the letter, and it was reported that one of the boys (I think that it was Steve) was heard to call Ned Captain at one of the bank robberies. Plus the fact that Angeline Baron (who is an expert) said in her wonderful book ‘Blood In The Dust’ that there is no doubt that the same hand wrote the Parkes Letter & the Babington Letter. I just wish the Mitchell Library would put it on display.
re. Parkes Letter – 1879
From: Mark Perry – 12 Jun 2010
Hello Brad, Alan. My repertoire does not extend to being a handwriting expert unfortunately so I can’t offer much. Doesn’t sound like either Ned or Joe though unless they had just had an opium session … Love Mark. Your two cents is in the mail…
From: Lisa – 12 Jun 2010
I was just wondering about the boys Armour being at Beechworth this year (YAY!). It is said in all the brochures etc that this will be only the fourth time ever that all four will be reunited together since 1880, but I think it will be possibly (at least) the sixth time. As all four were together at the Men Of Iron exhibition, Ned The Exhibition (though Joe’s Armour unfortunately wasn’t there the day we went for some reason), and the Kelly Culture Exhibition. I have also read about & seen a photo of the four exhibited together at the 1988 Bicentennial Celebrations, and another photo of all four together on show somewhere else, possibly in the 1980’s also. I’m pretty sure Beechworth this year will make it the sixth time they have been together, that is known of. You’re probably right. As for Ned: The Exhibition our dear friend Rupert Hammond caused all the non-display issues re. Joe’s Armour
re. Parkes Letter – 1879
From: Alan Crichton – 11 Jun 2010
Mr Webb, after having had a close examination of the Parkes Letter and comparing it to the Babington Letter in Ned’s hand at a very early age, i am of the opinion they have been written by the same person. The Babington letter of July 1870 is of the hand of a fifteen year old boy but in a more juvenile style. The Ks in Kelly are exactly the same as the Ks in the Parkes Letter as are the Ns and Ws. The Parkes Letter may have been dictated to the writer by another person eg George King, but i believe the Parkes Letter is in the hand of Ned Kelly. I would be interested in readers thoughts.
re. Parkes Letter – 1879
From: Mark Perry – 2 May 2010
What is Ian Jones opinion on the Parkes Letter? I’m guessing his repertoire doesn’t stretch to being a hand writing expert as well…
From: Lisa – 1 Jun 2010
Happy Birthday Dan Kelly! 😀
re. Parkes Letter – 1879
From: Lisa – 29 May 2010
Regarding Ned’s Parkes Letter,I have asked the Mitchell Library curator in the past & recently if the original letter would ever be put on display at the Library.But they unfortunately don’t seem too interested,which is a real shame.It would be fantastic to see the original on display,as I don’t think it has been before,has it? P.S. This note (written by a policeman called Edward Fosbery) is attached to the letter in the archives and reads : ‘My dear Sir Henry,Neither Ned nor Dan Kelly can write – that is,that they can scarcely write their names.The Victorian Constable states that they get sympathisers to write letters for them.’ They (police) just put the boot it at every little chance they got didn’t they.
From: Mat Spillard – 27 May 2010
I have a coin set of Australian Bushrangers (photo’s and info in coin section) that I am planning to sell. If anyone is interested let me know. Good luck with that. Of course I expect my standard 70% cut…
Parkes Letter – 1879
From: Thomas – 27 May 2010
I’m just wondering what your take on the Henry Parkes Letter is, several hand writing experts have concluded it is that of Ned’s hand, but I read that others have disputed its authenticity. To me the letter seems on one hand very plausible; showing Ned’s love of bluff, and his feelings towards the repression of the working man (hence the part about the mongolian workers, which fits the widespread concerns of the Australian labour movement at the time). However at the same time the letter has a very weird feel about it, it seems rather out of character; it is rather boastful, unlike the other letters which although are full of bluff and humour are driven by a quest for understanding, seeking to justify actions and explain his (i think rightly) perceived oppression. It is also very short, and slightly odd as almost all of Ned’s letters at this time were penned by Joe. Having said that Ned’s prison letters a bit over a year latter also get a bit weird too, particularly in Ned’s weird explanations of Glenrowan. The letter was also unearthed (in the late 70s ?) surprisingly late in the picture. However if it was a hoax, what would be the motivation and were there many hoax “Kellys” letters received at the time? Just curious as to your take. A.N. Baron confirmed the letter is indeed Ned’s. You should read the appraisal in her book Blood In The Dust, a must have for ALL Kelly buffs…
Wrecking the Glenrowan railway line
From: Ian Riordan – 26 May 2010
According to your text Ned ordered a railway fettler by the name of Reardon to tear up track on that fateful night. As my Great Great Grandfather – William (Liam) Riordan was a railway then roads board worker after moving to Stanley from the woolshed diggings there could be a link. Liam died in 1876 (buried in Stanley) but his son Daniel (my Great Grandfather) was born in 1852 and we know little of his movements before marrying in Albury in 1895. I still have to correct the spelling of my name as most assume it is the anglicised version. Could this be the case? P.S. I was 40yrs old when I could no longer resist the call to move to north east Victoria. Sorry, this fellow was James Reardon. You can read all about him on page 125 in Judith Douthie’s book ‘I Was At The Kelly Gang Round-up’
The town that is closed
From: Gaz – 26 May 2010
Well I went to Jerilderie the other day, felt a bit hungry so I went to the takeaway but it was closed, Hmm so across the road to the other takeaway and that was closed alsoHmm The next day I wanted some printing done, so I go to the computer shop ah yes it was closed.hmm ah theres a library maybe they can print some docs for me, get to the library and Guess it was closed Hmm so I go to the news agent and they don’t print documents.hmm oh check out the post office just maybe.hmm the sigh on the door said back in 10 min Hmmm. so I packed up and left the town where everything is closed.
re. Graves at Greta Cemetery
From: Alan Crichton – 21 May 2010
Gee Mr Webb, Where do we go from here? Eddy’s spilled his guts and you’ve gotta give him his due. I thought some bugger was starting up a graveyard tour for outlaws. I felt it necessary to apologise to Ms Lloyd for such bold and insensitive assumptions on my part. I also would be very interested in Eddy’s family and their association with Ellen Kelly on the 11 mile. It seems your family has some history of its own Ed? For your Grandfather to attend her funeral, your family must have been quite close? Could you give us some more information on your family living on the 11 mile? I think they might have scared Ed away…
re. Graves at Greta Cemetery
From: Eddy – 17 May 2010
Noeleen, you are dead right the responsibility lies solely with the family members and no one has the right to dictate otherwise. I hope it didn’t come across in such a way. My late father never mentioned that 2 headstones were ever stolen, for this I am ashamed. My G-father was a close family friend of the Griffiths who lived on the 11 mile I think during the early 1920’s. I have passed down knowledge of some of the stories, and a few photographs of my g-father posing outside the homestead with unnamed persons (m&f). So as you can see my family lived and worked in the area. Granddad spoke highly of Ellen and attended her Funeral. I was told of granddad’s time in the north east by my father and since he has shown my children and myself where my dad was born and raised. I guess my previous comment was naive of me. I was thinking of the wonderful thin! gs granddad had to say re: the family and felt deep within they deserve a headstone. Paul, Allow me to introduce myself my full name is Eddy Charles Roberts proud father of four, widowed and currently semi retired (Mechanic) from the eastern suburbs and by no means hiding behind a pseudonym. Why the hotmail account? Well I need not explain myself to you, however I shall. I’m computer literate and my daughter set up an account for me. My daughter (Ashley) advised me not to publicly make our bigpond address accessible to internet predators, scammers I think is the word Ashley used. Now this “kelly buff” new to me shall be signing off. I’m disappointed that I haven’t received the same respect I have shown. There was no need to have replied in such a way. Perhaps one day I’ll make your acquaintance. I pity the bus loads of geriatrics if only they were aware of how a Hart descendent refers to them… SHAME, SHAME , SHAME. Ed, many of my feedbackers use hotmail or gmail accounts and that’s fine by me. Even though the email addresses on Feedback aren’t ‘live’ (as there’s no hyperlinks) there’s always the chance some wayward Indian or Russian will do a copy and paste. As for the Hart descendant, he’s just going through a grumpy patch as KRudd isn’t all he’s cracked up to be. I’m a Gillard person myself…
re. Graves at Greta Cemetery
From: Lisa – 16 May 2010
Thank you to Noeleen for your letters regarding the Greta Cemetery.I think it is important to remember and respect that while so many of us are able to read and learn about the wonderful & interesting people involved in the Kelly Gang story,that to the members of the Kelly, Lloyd, Hart & Byrne families, these same people are firstly and simply their Uncles, Grandparents, Cousins & Aunts etc. They should not ever have to be made to feel like they have to defend their family decisions to place (or not to place) headstones on the graves of their own people. While I am sure that those of us who quietly and harmlessly pay their respects at Greta (and other related places) far out number the person or persons who have tried to interefere with graves, unfortunately these disgraceful people do exist, as things have gone on in the past.It is hard to believe that anyone could be so cold and horrible as to want to interfere with a persons final resting place, treating them as an object instead of a human being,but sadly there are people like that who would think that taking something from a grave etc is some kind of sick trophy. Even just one single person like this, is one person far too many. It is a terrible thing that anyone should ever have to worry that a grave could be interfered with, but unfortunately there are some very stupid people around. The Greta Cemetery always seems to have a lovely, calm feeling about it and I hope that never changes. I think it is just the same to pay your respects to someone whether their grave is marked or not. Of course every person deserves to have a headstone, but not every person wishes to. Then or now. It is quite possible that Kelly family members may have wished & requested that their graves not be marked. Maybe with their dear brother & son Dan having been quietly buried in that way, they may have wanted to be placed there with him at Greta in the same way. Perhaps they thought and hoped that this at least would be one time in their lives when they could all be left alone together in peace. Well said
Ned Kelly and the Green Sash
From: Jonelle Matson – 15 May 2010
Hi guys. A new childrens book is being released called Ned Kelly and the Green Sash. This looks to be a fabulous book aimed at younger readers, and at the risk of being branded a publicist, please buy this book. If you are interested in this at all, please check out their facebook page! I personally love any books that can bring history alive to the kids. Cheers.
re. Graves at Greta Cemetery
From: Paul O’Keefe – 14 May 2010
Dear Edward/Ned…whoever you wish/want/hope to be. Thats good you have to justify your real name is Ned….that gives me great confidence. Anyway, Iron underscore Ned… Most of us here don’t hide behind a pseudonym or a hotmail account. Maybe in hindsight I should of grabbed Brad Pitt at hotmail dot com but unfortunately all is left is Cess (short for Cecil) Pitt , maybe I should of grabbed that one (it has a certain ring about it …Cess Pitt) don’t you think? Anyway, (Noeleen, Lola, or Myself) have ALWAYS been more than approachable via our private emails that have been posted for years via Ironoutlaw. As you state as most of “us Kelly Buffs in the know”…should also KNOW… since your a buff… KNOW .how sensitive graves are and should be to everyone regardless of who your family is. Since you are such a Kelly Buff you should be aware of disgusting and immoral desecration that some of the families have suffered over the years, after tour groups and some of your own fellow “buffs” decide to proves a hunch or two…does it surprise you why people are so defensive? Hey…heres an ideas iron_ned. Let us know where ya great great Nana’s/Uncle/Grandpa are planted and we might commemorate their grave as tourist attraction and bring a busloads of geriatrics to oogle over their final resting place and then lurk back when under the cover of darkness shove a steel probe into one of their graves to find a DNA sample. Ned, Its never been about being worthy…what is worth?, worthy to you? who cares if its an unmarked grave, there are reasons why they are are unmarked, it doesn’t mean these people/graves aren’t loved/missed or visited less.
Seige Weekend 28 June 2010
From: Lynden Cole – 14 May 2010
Bail Up all, Can someone inform me as to whether or not anything will be happening in Glenrowan this year to comemmorate the 130th year of the seige and Neds last stand. If not why not, whats going on down there in Glenrowan, is there at least going to be a good ol Aussie Sausage Sizzle, face painting and everyones favourite, a jumping castle and pony rides, to mark this this event. It could be and should be a whole weekend get together of all things associated with the Glenrowan area and The Kelly Gang. You may get a genuine shoot-out as it seems all the old friends are now foes…
Extension History Topic
From: Sydney Abba – 14 Apr 2010
I’m researching Ned Kelly for extension history and obviously analyzing the debate over whether he was a hero or a villain. I have two questions: One, is it possible for me to obtain Ian Jones credibility as a historian, only that I need ‘hard’ evidence that he is the leading historian on Kelly’s life. Two, what would you advise in terms of books that present Kelly as a hero and books that present him as a villain? Where do I start…
Max Brown’s Australian Son
From: Tom Guerin – 13 Apr 2010
I have been unable to find a copy of the latest print of Australian Son by Max Brown. Your site has it listed as being for sale but it is not on the shopping page. I believe the book maybe out of print. Can you please advise me if you have any copies available? Presently all stock is sold out. The good news is we are currently coordinating a reprint which will be produced in hard cover, giving Max’s words the treatment they deserve!
re. Ned Kelly’s Last Stand Statue
From: Alan Crichton – 7 Apr 2010
Lynden, you must be psychic or sumtin. I had visions along the lines of which you speak not so long ago. I didn’t come up with the idea of a true life statue of Ned, but i did dream of some other things that could be of some help. If you check out Keep Ya Powder Dry on this site, and look up ‘A Nightmare on Siege Street’, it might give you some ideas. As for the OK Corral re-enactment, all i can say is…. God bless America……because no other bugger will!
Kennedy, Scanlan & Co
From: Peter (Stinger) Nettleton – 7 Apr 2010
Michael Kennedy may well have been a brave man and a good copper, however VP Historian Bob Haldane’s thesis suggests that he and Scanlan were also experienced and quite successful bounty-hunters, whose motivation in hunting the Kellys was not entirely altruistic. (Lonigan was brought along to identify the Kellys and McIntyre was camp cook). Interestingly, Ned was never charged with murdering Kennedy, even though he had virtually confessed to it (as a ‘mercy killing’) in the Jerilderie letter. I believe that was because the crown did not want that letter in evidence, since it put the police in such a bad light and may well have resulted in an acquittal by a sympathetic jury. Instead, they went with the dodgy eye-witness testimony of McIntyre as to Lonigan’s killing – and the rest is history. Well said…
re. Ned Kelly’s Last Stand Statue
From: Jonelle Matson – 7 Apr 2010
I think Alan’s idea of a rose / memorial garden was the best idea. Having a statue won’t make many people visit, and the idea of a gun battle on the site, to me, is terrible and doesn’t seem (once again to me) pay homage to those who lost their lives, or reflect the horror of the seige. Glenrowen to me is the place of reflection and ghosts, not shiny bright statues for the local birds to roost on.
re. Ned weekend. Again.
From: Mick Fitzsimons – 7 Apr 2010
Alan, a great piece about the police misgivings and Paul, you are spot on about Lonigan. As for the police party at Stringbark Creek, they all knew what they were doing, going out after the gang disguised as prospectors with their body straps for the pack horses. They were also heavily armed and had a long rang rifle, not the sort of thing for a confrontation, but to attack from a safe distance. The Outlawry Act I believe had expired, so the police were acting unlawfully. Did these things bother the conscience of the police as they set out to kill the Kelly Gang? There was also the suggestion that Kennedy and Scanlon left Lonigan and McIntyre at their camp, in the hope of finding Ned and Dan and claiming the reward for themselves. As for the police side of the story, it becomes a bit hard to swallow their version as they have never admitted that they did any wrongdoing and therefore give a twisted and biased version. Let the police tell it how it really was, with all the points that Alan raised and then let us see what sort of display they would have. Not a very big or impressive one me thinks!
Ned Kelly’s Last Stand Statue
From: Lynden Cole – 6 Apr 2010
Bail up,everyone. Has there been any positive thoughts of a true to life statue of Ned at the seige site.As Ned was the central figure in all that happened back then,there needs to be a fitting memorial to him.There are statues already standing of less significant people being appreciated by those who are interested.Yes, it would be a tourist attraction and be something new to help Glenrowans businesses a little with extra tourists dollars into the area and whats wrong with that.I live in Qld and would love to see the whole seige area rebuilt the way it was in 1880.This will take time I know but with less fighting and more agreeing,it can happen sooner.I have never been to the OK corral in the town of Tombstone USA in which a peace keeper name Wyatt Earp and his brothers and a mate had a gunbattle with some troublemaker! s about the same time of the Kelly years.They have regular re- anactments of that gunfight to an audience,(if someone has been to this venue please correct me or assist me) as maybe something like it could be set up at Glenrowan in years to come, simply to bring history back to life again,for future generations.Lets keep everything positive and move forward.Please only constructive comments, Thank You.
re. Ned weekend. Again.
From: Paul O’Keefe – 3 Apr 2010
Hi all, Firstly Alan, you forgot to mention Lonigan and his penchant for arresting via the squirrel grip! But I must agree with the summation of Robert Graham. After much hard and honest work mostly at the risk of his own safety, succeeded to make peace. Robert Graham is one of the unsung hero’s of the Victorian Police, where numerous did the opposite. Anyway, I thought the last word on this subject should go to Laurie Mortimer who gave an interview in the early 70’s about his father David’s Mortimer recollections as a person “rounded up” and kept at bay at the Ann Jones Inn that fateful day and night. “Everyone knew the Kelly’s and liked them. They were wild but not bad, circumstances made them that way” David also said “I do not think the police where right in acting as they did. We were frightened of them (Police) not the bushrangers” Paul O’Keefe www.neducate.com.au P.S To read this fascinating story about David Mortimer and the rest of the “hostages” IT’S A MUST to read Judith Douthie’s amazing book… I was at the Kelly Gang round up.
From: Stewart Samuel – 1 Apr 2010
Thats a great site you have of Ned kelly the Tattos were fantastic. found this Ned Kelly Zippo lighter on Flickr thought you might enjoy looking.
re. Ned weekend. Again.
From: Alan Crichton – 31 Mar 2010
Robert, I totally agree with what you say, and that is why I made no mention of Michael Kennedy or Robert Graham. You know what happens when there’s just one rotten apple in the barrel?……… you have to remove it quickly or the rot will spread, just like a cancer. It was a shame that a lot of these rotten apples weren’t removed until long after the damage was done. Michael Kennedy and Robert Graham i believe were good coppers, as were many others, but it’s the rogues who need to answer for their actions. I believe it was Thomas Peter Lloyd who once made the remark…..’If there were more men like Robert Graham in the police force, there would have been no Kelly Outbreak.’ All Robert Graham did was to talk to, and treat people like human beings, unlike those who came before him and tried to apply their authority with a sl! edge hammer. Every action produces a re-action and it was Robert Grahams actions that eventually brought peace to the North-East. Here, here…
re. Ned weekend. Again.
From: Robert McGarrigle – 30 Mar 2010
Alan, I thoroughly agree with your comments on the police and the gang members(boys).However all the policemen were not corrupt and baddies as it were.I believe that Bracken, Michael Kennedy and Robert Graham in particular should not be mentioned with those that you referred too. There were some police during the outbreak years that did their job well,especially the 3 that I have mentioned.I believe Ned himself said that Kennedy was a brave man and that he wouldn’t have shot him if he’d realised that he had put his gun down. I believe that the Kelly weekend should represent both sides of the story the gang side and the police side. In otherwords I would like to think that a debate on what the weekend should represent is indeed healthy and we should respect everyones views. I am a distant relative of Neds and after talking to a descendant of Michael Kennedy the other week at SBC, I believe I have an impartial view of the whole event but others have a right to disagee with my views. Robert Graham was pivotal in ensuring a second outbreak did not eventuate from the aftermath of the ‘blood money’ distribution. As Max Brown wrote in Australian Son, ‘At this juncture, Constable Robert Graham – a young officer contemplating marriage and nicknamed “Honest Bob” – saw an opportunity for conciliation and was allowed to reopen the police station at Greta, which he did – of all venues – in O’Brien’s Hotel.’ HOWEVER, when you read a story like Top Aussie cop takes aim at Ned Kelly from New South Wales Police Commissioner Andrew Scipione you can’t help but wonder how deep the ignornance of Australian history flows within our society…
re. Ned weekend. Again.
From: Alan Crichton – 29 Mar 2010
Crikey Mark, talk about leading with ya chin. Thems is fightin woids. I find nothing wrong with cherishing Ned action figures, or for that matter, cardboard helmets. There are some, might I say, overly matured sympathisers out there who can’t afford steel, and must settle for a cheaper cardboard alternative. And with the outrageous price of action figures these days, I have known of grown men making do with Ned dolls…er…I mean lifelike Ned figures made out of cardboard from toilet rolls. As far as referring to the gang members as boys, I have seen this term used frequently, not just on Ironoutlaw but in many books and a host of other printed matter on the subject. I must admit, I have not come across the word scallywag in reference to the boys, but i have seen the word larrikin used quite extensively in several Kelly books. ! Maybe larrikin and scallywag have the same meaning. Either way…..boys will be boys. When you refer to anti-police vibes seemingly emitting from this site Mark, you only have the police to blame for that. The unforgivable conduct of the Victorian police at Glenrowan for killing and wounding men, and children. Sergeant Arthur Steele for firing on innocent women, children, and babies… Constable Fitzpatrick for his drunkenness, womanising, lies and deceit and ultimately the cause of the Kelly Outbreak…. Detective Ward for his questionable fondness of innocent school girls…..The married Constable Flood who impregnated Ned’s sister eventually causing her death and that of her baby…. That obese liar and coward Constable Hall for shooting at a boy three times at close range and beating the boy senseless with his pistol while the boy was being held by others….. Constable McIntyre for his lies in evidence at the preliminary hearing in Beechworth and Melbourne, and Inspector Sadlier and others for knowing of it….that half witted coward Inspector Brooke Smith, for thre! atening to kill young children in their own home…..Those four cowardly Constables, Duross, Dowling, Armstrong and Alexander for hiding under a bed while two women are left undefended to confront their attackers…. What about the many innocent farmers who were locked up on police orders in the Beechworth gaol and held for no lawful reason? What about all of those families who were denied the right to take up land by the Lands Department on police orders? The list just goes on and on Mark. When you compare the disgraceful conduct of the police to that of four young larrikins or should I say scallywags, it is no wonder the boys come out looking like “super heroes.” I must agree Mark that the Kelly Weekend programme for 2010 certainly seems to be filled with more events than previous years, and I’m sure many visitors will enjoy their weekend. I should also point out that you are correct Mark when you state that the police side is just as relevant and important. In point of fact Mark, it is extremely relevant, because without it, Ned Kelly, Dan Kelly, Joe Byrne and Steve Hart would not be, as you put it, hero worshipped, or risen to the iconic status they hold today, in not only the hearts and minds of millions throughout the world, but also to be remembered forever in Aboriginal folklore. But who knows, the Ned Kelly Weekend next year might end up being called……. The Heroic Victorian Police and Scallywags Weekend 2011, just to be fair to both sides.
re. Ned weekend. Again.
From: Faith – 29 Mar 2010
I think it is unfair to assume that people that “study” or research The Kelly Gang base there judgment on who they support the most, the idea is to look at both sides with a clear view of fact and what you gather from that fact should be truth no matter who it supports the most, my comment before about how i believed that the Ned weekend was turning out to be more about the police is based on something i saw on a website, and to be honest with you i believe that the set up can be taken the wrong way…that is not to say that i am “anti police” but i think alot of people will agree that in alot of ways the Ned Kelly weekend is a place where people with a strong interest in the subject can dive into all things Kelly Gang, that’s not to say that the police talks and all that don’t have there place just that well….when i think of going to the weekend i think of all the things that got me interested and keep me looking, I wanna hear talks from those closest to the story, i want to get books and meet other people that also have an interest in the story, i want to hear peoples idea’s, and that does include police stories or “talks”. I wonder if it would help them to bring up Robert Graham? i dont believe that people are completely one sided with the story when u really get into it its kinda impossible to be really, but my point is that if people want to make the Ned Kelly weekend all about the Kelly Gang then they have every right to because its kinda the only time that everyone can really just be in one place and all have something in common, so to speak…give me a “police talk” any day and i will take in everything you say to me, i dont have to agree with everything, but you no what you dont have to agree on everything i say about the Kelly gang either,as long as everything that is said is based on fact sometimes the truth is a hard reality on both sides but at the end of it all i wont consider you anti Ned just that based on what you no you have a different conclusion.
Ned Kelly Photos
From: Michael Gehrke – 29 Mar 2010
Hello and g’day. I am Michael from Germany. Travelling through Australia in 2008 and 2009 I made lots of Videoshots and I am still very busy on cutting them. Starting in Melbourne I visited Kelly Country and was in Glenrowan and other places. Doing some research in the internet I found your site. And I hope very much that you can give me some support. For the clips which might be seen in Internet and a local TV I would like to take some historic fotos of Ned, Richard Shelton and the different events and places, also some newer fotographies e.g. of Reds homestead in Avenel and the Creek, which I saw on your homepage. I would really appreciate it very much, if you could help me. – Do you have files of them? ( I am not 100% secure about the copy right. The older from 1880 etc. should be free of any – right?). Looking forward to your answer.
re. Ned weekend. Again.
From: Mark Perry – 29 Mar 2010
Hi Lisa. I certainly wasn’t making fun of your post. Sorry if it came across that way. I have been a student of the Kellys for nearly 30 years and have felt sympathy for the Kelly Gang and their families. Maybe it’s just been the various complaints about the August weekend that are irking and the “i’m not going this year because of….” attitude. And I have never liked the Gang being referred to as “the boys” but it wasn’t directed at you at all. I have re-read my post and yes, it does come across a smidge arrogant so I apologise.
re. Ned weekend. Again.
From: Anthony Smit – 29 Mar 2010
Not to mention drunken policemen who try to rape 15 year old girls at gunpoint. None of the boys ever behaved like that towards any woman.
re. Ned weekend. Again.
From: Jonelle Matson – 29 Mar 2010
I find Marks comments offensive. I personally do not have any action figures or cardboard helmets. There is no anti-police vibe. I think the only vibe is that the story of the Kelly Gang, and yes the police are pretty instrumental in this story as without the police what story would there be? Whilst I am interested in police history, most people attend the Ned Kelly Weekend to learn more about the WHOLE story, of which the main character is Ned. I also understand that several contributors to this site are either serving or ex police officers, and I welcome their opinions, insights and beliefs as much as anyone elses. While I’m loath to prevent anyone expressing their opinion (unless it’s full of smut), I don’t think Mark intended to insult anyone, he just worded this thoughts incorrectly. Bottom line is the Kelly Weekend has been hijacked and unfortunately, unless you live in the area and can join the Society running the event, there’s not much that can be done except rattle the chains and vote with your feet…
re. Ned weekend. Again.
From: Lisa – 28 Mar 2010
Excuse me Mark but is your latest post meant to be you making fun of my posts or something? Because it seems like it is. Why are talks about ‘the boys’ (yes it’s been ‘in vogue’ a long time. That’s how many people have always referred to them, including them themselves) at the Ned Weekend said by you to be ‘hero worship’? ‘clutching our Ned action figures and cardboard helmets’. Are you joking? Just because a person has an interest in the boys, doesn’t make them instantly anti police or an idiot who hero worships them, which is how your post seems to dismiss people who sympathise with the boys as being. I think your post is very arrogant and rude. I don’t think there is an anti police vibe on here at all. Of course the police side of the story is relevant too, but you shouldn’t dismiss people who sympathise with the gang as being silly idiots who think of them as (in your words) ‘Superheroes’, but your post sure has come across like that. Geez.
Ned weekend. Again.
From: Mark Perry – 28 Mar 2010
Personally I reckon the 2010 Beechworth weekend programme is one of the better ones they have had. I’m finding the “police” angle with a little less of an emphasis on the hero worship of the Gang interesting. (or should I say “the boys” , those scallywags…as seems to be in vogue?) The Police side of the story is just as relevant and important and who knows? It may just help reduce the anti police vibe that now seems to eminate from this site. P.S. I’m not anti Ned. I just think we should all stop clutching our Ned action figures and cardboard helmets and be content to hear from all sides and accept the weekend for what it is, instead of getting cross that it doesn’t put “the boys” (!) across as Superheroes. They weren’t. They did wrong and they did good. So did others on the opposing side. Trouble is the ‘opposing side’ has never admitted any wrong doings. Take a stroll through the current ‘Ambushed’ exhibition and there’s no mention of the police bullets which caused the death of plate layer Martin Cherry and the child Johnny Jones. Not to mention the responsibility for wounding his sister Jane Jones in the forehead (later to die), Michael Reardon in the shoulder, and William Metcalf in the eye…
From: Anthony Smit – 25 Mar 2010
Hi Brad, Here’s an another article for the police shame file. These people are paid to protect innocent Victorians. Makes you feel safe huh? Safe if your skin colour is nice and white…
From: Michele Eve – 24 Mar 2010
Got lost for some time in all those Links not to mention the Avenel Maze – some great stuff, a wealth of information. And regards the Monarchist League, can I just sat say that some of us Brits don’t even want them. You sure we can’t pack them off to spend a sabbatical with you lot? “Sometimes I lie awake at nights worried people may think me too left wing” ha!
From: Faith – 23 Mar 2010
Hey i was just wondering when did the Ned Kelly weekend become all about the police? I just had a look at what sorts of things will be going on at the Ned Kelly weekend this year and what a great way to get people interested, the first thing they mention is all the stuff about the police and all the police talks, I’m not saying that it doesnt have its place in the event.. but! Maybe its just me … Then again maybe its not?
Ned Kelly Weekend
From: Lisa – 20 Mar 2010
The program for this years Ned Kelly weekend is now up. There are alot of interesting events planned by the looks of it.I hoped though that there would have been more talks about the boys with it being the 130th Anniversary,and perhaps a talk from Ian Jones but unfortunately he isn’t doing one this year. The highlight though of course is the boys Armour, it’s all worth it for them alone, it will be incredible to see all four back together in North East Victoria. Just regarding photographs too, I asked a nice lady at the Beechworth Visitor Centre if we will be allowed to take photos of the Armour & she said that the organising committee have told her that yes photos are allowed. Thank goodness,that’s great to hear anyway. I’ve never understood the no photos thing when it comes to the Armour. Still a great shame about the Burke though. P.S. The documentary Ned Kelly: The True Story was really good, it seemed to be more detailed than the Australian Besieged version in parts. It still had those same crappy beards…
re. Kelly Gang Armour now in the Town Hall?
From:Alan Crichton – 16 Mar 2010
Mark, the Burke Museum is only fifty paces from the town hall, but your thought of why it could have been avoided for the Kelly Gang Armour Exhibition has come about because of the very thing we are all up in arms about. Whether they like it or not, the Council are responsible for the running and success of, not only the Historic Precinct, but also the Burke Museum. But what happens when the council allows just about every building in the precinct to operate as a museum? What happens when the council and event organisers continually concentrate all their attention on the Historic Precinct and shopping district when promoting major events throughout the year? I’ll tell you what……the beautiful and historic Robert O’Hara Burke Museum becomes, in the eyes of some, just another old building in some out of th! e way backwater. And nothing has changed for the Ned Kelly Weekend this year. The BHRG have the chance to lend a helping hand to the museum, but have chosen instead to turn its back and promote the Town Hall. For those who will be attending the Ned Kelly Weekend, and do not care or understand what I am talking about, I suggest you take the time to seek out Mr Adam Wynne Jenkins and ask for permission to join his Beechworth Historical Re-enactment Group. Mark, I’m not sure of what is happening re photographing the armour, but I wouldn’t count on it. You might get away with it if you were with the media and allowed Mr Jenkins to also be in the shot.
re. Kelly Gang Armour now in the Town Hall?
From: Mark Perry – 16 Mar 2010
Just a thought. Is the Burke missing out on the Armour because it’s not on the main drag? (ie: Ford St.) Is its location in Loch St considered an out of the way backwater and not enticing enough for the tourists? Granted, the town hall, so close to the precinct is better situated. As I said, just a thought. Any word on photos being allowed by the way?
Ned Kelly FM
From: Lisa – 16 Mar 2010
What a great idea, Ned Kelly FM. DJ Ned…
Echuca Celtic Festival
From: Lola Rowe – 16 Mar 2010
A great Celtic Festival held on the weekend of the 13th. & 14th. March in Echuca. The highlight was listening to Noeline Allen giving the life story and true facts of ELLEN KELLY, a subjct she has been researching for many years, a very interesting subject, beginning from her Parents and family leaving Ireland, her growing up, marriages, death of her two beloved Sons, the death of her beloved Grandson during the first world war, living in Greta with her beloved third Son Jim..A great lady Ellen and told with compassion and feeling, finishing with a beautiful poem written by Alan Crichton, read by Noelen Lloyd, which left a few damp eyes…Thank you…
re. Kelly Gang Armour now in the Town Hall?
From: Alan Crichton – 14 Mar 2010
Dear Mr Fitzsimons, the speech impediment you speak of is a mixture of my recently acquired Irish brogue and that addictive drop from the devil himself… a $4.99 flagon of Half Mile Creek Cab. Sav. Because of your hurtful remarks, the price on that.. er.. um.. genuine Kelly Gang reward poster that I had so kindly offered to sell to you for a mere pittance of $500 on that other site, has now risen substantially, and of course will still carry Crichton’s guarantee of no refund if proven a fake. If you do not wish to purchase my er…um.. genuine Reward Poster, I shall be forced to sell it on Ebay or better still, to the Burke Museum who I’m sure would jump at the chance to exhibit yet another er…um… genuine artefact.
From: Michele Eve – 13 Mar 2010
I was just reading Hammonds answer to Alan’s letter and I got one of those teeth gritting moments, before I started cussing that was “We believe we have a responsibility to share our Armour with the people of Australia. We have been invited to take place in the event at Beechworth. I understand that the State Library and Victoria Police are happy to participate in this event. It will be very significant as it will be first time the 4 suits have been seen together outside Melbourne. Our suit of Armour has been seen in Beechworth before” OUR armour?? So what precisely did he do to deserve ownership of the iron Joe died in? Ah he happened to be born.Well done then. It is immoral for this man to hold onto it so him giving it up in a spirit of whats right and proper would seem to be unlikely. I do recall seeing some disturbing pictures of Mr Hammond and his friends trying on the armour a while back, I don’t even want to think too deeply about… Is about time people took it back I’d say, or someone looked into that civil action! Bringing the 4 together would seem to me too to be a good starting point But yes reading his magnanimous posturing makes me spit my morning tea frankly. I also wanted to say well done to Alan- not the desired outcome about the armour- yet. But a step forward huh?
re. Kelly Gang Armour now in the Town Hall?
From: Mick Fitzsimons – 13 Mar 2010
I have to agree with Mr. Crichton, how ridicules, not to mention bloody-minded! I thought that security was one of the main issues! How secure are the Shire Offices compared to the Burke Museum? The people in charge of this are acting like the police of the late 1870’s, foolish, incompetent, underhanded and far from trustworthy. One has to wonder what is behind all these shenanigans, as there has to be an ulterior motive for continually overlooking the Burke Museum. One would have thought common sense would prevail in the end, but apparently not in the Indigo Shire. P.S. Is that Irish you have been speaking Alan? No wonder I couldn’t understand a word you were saying as I thought you had a severe speech impediment and being myself, I was too polite to ask.
re. Kelly Gang Armour now in the Town Hall?
From: Lisa – 13 Mar 2010
Thanks for the update Alan. That’s good news that the boys Armour won’t be displayed at the old police station,and will be instead exhibited in a much bigger place,allowing for their Armour to be displayed better. But why the Burke Museum again wasn’t chosen really is inexplicable. It simply does not make sense. They seem to have it back to front with giving the Museum replica’s and the Town Hall the real thing. I thought people in country towns supported each other, but it doesn’t seem like the BHRG care to support the Burke. It’s weird, especially when you think that by displaying the boys Armour there that the issue of the Museum being in trouble due to low patronage would be instantly fixed in one weekend. It makes you think that there must be a personal grudge from someone from the BHRG & someone from the Burke going on or something, I guess that would explain the petty carry on. Either way it’s pretty stupid. Or perhaps the Victoria Police have secretly had the Burke museum blacklisted all these years for wanting to display the Armour back in 1880, instead of wanting it destryed like old Standish wanted. P.S. I read too that 13 cast members of The Last Outlaw will be reunited at the Ned weekend this year, including John Jarratt, Sigrid Thornton & Debra Lawrence.
Kelly Gang Armour now in the Town Hall?
From: Alan Crichton – 11 Mar 2010
Well folks, after reading the Border Mail 9th March it seems that the Ned Kelly Weekend Organising Committee has finally realised that the B.H.R.G headquarters is totally inappropriate to display the Kelly Gang Armour, and have decided on displaying it at, not the Burke Museum, but in the bloody Beechworth Town Hall??? I suppose this would be better than that revamped police station, but again, why the Town Hall? What the hell is going on here? When I wrote about putting it in the Beechworth Bakery or the Council Chambers I was only kidding. Who knows, maybe that Armour could quite easily still end up at the bakery before the Burke Museum is even considered. It goes on to state in the Border Mail that the Burke Museum will host the replica Armour and some other memorabilia from The Last Outlaw mini-series. How bloody generous!
We now have replicas exhibited at the museum, and the originals going to the Town Hall. Does the Indigo Shire Council know they even have a museum? The council has just spent tens of thousands of dollars of ratepayers money (of which I am one) on a study to find out what can be done to rectify the struggling museum’s problems, and then ignores the one international exhibition that could help it. It just doesn’t make any sense. We don’t want to go to a museum that exhibits bloody fakes. Give the fakes to the Town Hall and give the museum that which it has been built for and deserves…..original artefacts. Where the blazes are these Friends of the Burke when it needs them? I have heard that there are those associated with the museum who have the audacity to say the Burke Museum didn’t even want the Armour. Well all I can say to those people is, if this is your attitude, then you have no right to be associated with the Burke Museum, find another job, and get some other project to keep yourself occupied.
On the Kelly Weekend’s Friday night 6th August at 6.30 PM, the Burke Museum will be holding refreshments and nibbles for the Ned Kelly 130th Anniversary Special. It will have an exhibition of memorabilia from the Last Outlaw series as shown on Channel 7, all for the mere pittance of $15 entry for non members. At the same time at the Nicholas Hotel, the Kelly Weekend Organising Committee have a dinner planned titled Fiddles, Fisticuffs, Food and Fashions with it being headlined by non other than John Jarrett, the actor who played the roll of Ned Kelly in the Last Outlaw. I must also mention he acted the part of a cold bloodied killer in the movie Wolf Creek. So how many of you Weekend patrons will be attending the Burke Museum on the Friday night? Wouldn’t it have been a better idea on the Friday night to have had a premiere viewing of the original Kelly Gang Armour at the Museum tied in with a dinner to commemorate its arrival to the North East after an absence of 130 years? After all is said and done, isn’t the “ORIGINAL” Kelly Gang Armour the main drawcard for the Weekend?
It’s still not too late for the Ned Kelly Weekend Organising Committee and the Indigo Shire Council, to allow the Burke Museum its given rights as an Australian Museum to house the Kelly Gang Armour, and not the Town Hall. It’s also about time the Organising Committee and the Council showed a little more common sense, and a hell of a lot more community spirit.
re. Chidley Studios, Ned Kelly dramatic performance newspaper write-up
From: Sally McInerney – 10 Mar 2010
Sorry about the incomplete email address of my earlier message. Are you interested in a newspaper item from the Hobart Mercury, 1903, The Kellys on the Stage? I came across it while researching a life of William Chidley – whose father took the photo. of Ned Kelly aged 19 (Chidley Studio). Chidley’s girlfriend played the part of Kate Kelly in the stage play… P.S. Was Ned Kelly’s grey mare named “Music”, or is that just a bit of a myth? Joe’s horse was Music, Ned’s was Mirth
re. Kelly Gang Documentary
From: Alan Crichton – 10 Mar 2010
I must agree with Ellen, if this is the doco by Barry Dowdall, the more you watch it the easier it becomes to understand and enjoy. I believe i received that bloody Irish version, and after viewing it several hundred times, am pleased to say that i can now speak fluent Irish, even though Mr Fitzsimons would disagree. I must also admit that i have watched Ellen’s interview in the doco considerably more times than the rest of the film, but all i’m prepared to say is….. each to his own.
re. Kelly Gang Documentary
From: Ellen Hollow – 9 Mar 2010
If this is the documentary by the Irish film maker Barrie Dowdall it is very good.
From: Sarah – 7 Mar 2010
The song on the other page is wrong he had no kids or a wife so please change it P.S it is wrong! Ah ha…
Kelly Gang Documentary
From: Lisa – 6 Mar 2010
A documentary called Ned Kelly: The True Story will be played on the Foxtel History channel on St Patrick’s Day,Wednesday 17th March at 7.30pm and repeated again the next day. According to the write up it is a new documentary. It sounds good. P.S. Just regarding my previous post about the Kelly Gang documentary, I thought it was a new one being advertised, but after looking more I think it is the different version of the Besieged documentary.The way it was written though they said it was a premiere documentary,and not an old one. Anyway it should still be worth a look.
re. Greta Cemetery
From: Greg Devlin – 6 Mar 2010
Thanks Noleen, for your answer, I possibly have used the incorrrect term when saying that the graves look negelected. I have been to the cemetery on several occasions and have certainly noticed the improvements and well maintained grounds. Keep up the excellent work.
re. Greta Cemetery
From: Noeleen Lloyd – 5 Mar 2010
I thought I would answer this one as I am a member of the Greta Cemetery Trust. The Trust is made up of members of many families from Greta and we all take our responsiblity to those who have passed (and their living descendents) seriously – and all of us have siginificant numbers of family members buried in the Cemetery. First I would say that there are over 550 graves at the Cemetery with less than a quarter of those having markers of any kind. The Cemetery Trust is an active one, made up of volunteers and with very limited funds I believe we manage to keep the grounds in good order. Regular visitors will notice the improvements over the years; including fencing, trees, and a memorial at the gate to all the pioneering families of Greta. We are about to add another significicant improvement by building a rotunda in the grounds that will provide shelter to people during visits and at funerals. All funds need to be sourced and often take many applications (and knockbacks) for Government grants. Secondly , as far as any grave in any cemetery goes – it is entirely the right and the responsibility of living family members/descendents to make the decision whether to mark the grave or not. No trust is allowed to erect headstones, or for that matter do repairs without the permission of family – especially where there is known family. It also costs an enormous amount of money to repair headstones – most small trusts simply do not have the funds, even if they did have permission to do repairs etc. Finally, yes there has been interference to graves in the past. Some headstones have infact been removed and taken. Graves may be unmarked but they are NOT neglected. Well said!
SCARY … IF TRUE!
From: Deb Hurst – 4 Mar 2010
Was anyone listening to Sydney’s local ABC station 702 last Thursday (25th Feb) evening at around 5.55pm? I swear I heard a politician guest on the Richard Glover program say that (wait for it…) Kate Kelly was involved in the conscription debates of World War I!! I was fluffing about the house at the time so I REALLY HOPE that I missed something beforehand … But I don’t think so…Did anyone hear it and can clarify what was said? Kate died on October 6, 1898…
From: Greg Devlin – 3 Mar 2010
I was wondering if it would be possible to get an explanation for the graves of the Kelly family members in the Greta Cemetery. Most would be aware that they are unmarked and in a neglected state. I would like to know if the reason for this is one of privacy, or close family reasons, or a financial consideration. I can possible understand if the graves are not marked for fear of interference, but it would be a sad if the resting places of these people are not remembered for other reasons.
Ned Kelly Requiem Mass called off
From: Maree K. – 27 Feb 2010
I was organizing a Requiem Mass for Ned Kelly in Cowra per June 6,2010 but decided to cancel it after an event that happened which made all my friends shudder for days. I rang the Cowra Police to ask them if they would like to attend a huge requiem mass for a “much loved person” in June 2010. I stated there could be excessive amounts of people attending (This is bushranger country also). I had been put through to police in Orange which is the local area command and the officer stated that they would be only too happy to attend if I give them a couple of weeks notice. I never told them who it was for. Less than an hour later it came on the news that police officers had pulled over a car in Lucknow just outside of Orange for a RBT and the person jumped out of the car carrying a .22 calibre sawn-off shotgun. More police were alerted and arrived so he held them at bay for 7 hours when they heard a gun shot, found the man with a wound to his chest and he died in the early hours of the morning. It was Ned Kelly all over again! His name was never released, Orana Police (Dubbo) investigated but nothing else has come to light on this story. It was very eerie to say the least and we are glad we didn’t tell the cops who it was for at that stage. We have decided to cancel it for this year at least. Sorry, how was this ‘Ned Kelly all over again’?
Ian Jones Contact Details
From: Kate Vinen – 24 Feb 2010
Hello, I am researching a project and am trying to get in contact with Mr Ian Jones, historian. Does anyone have his contact details, or know his agents details? Any leads would be greatly appreciated. Try his current publisher…
Chidley Studios, Ned Kelly dramatic performance newspaper write-up
From: Sally McInerney – 22 Feb 10
PLEASE get in touch with me, re. Ned and william Chidley – whose girlfriend played the part of Kate Kelly in the late 1800s?
Letter to the Editor (Border Mail)
From: Alan Crichton – 15 Feb 2010
It has come to my attention that a media event has been organised by the Ned Kelly Weekend Organising Committee for the 9th March at 10.30 am regarding the Ned Kelly Weekend taking place in Beechworth this August. I have also heard the media event will be held at the Burke Museum. If you will allow me to explain a couple of issues I have regarding this event I would be most grateful.
Firstly, let me inform you that the Ned Kelly Weekend Organising Committee is also the B.H.R.G, or the Beechworth Historical Re-enactment Group. The President of this Weekend Committee is Adam Wynne-Jenkins. He is not only President of the Kelly Weekend Committee, but also President of the B.H.R.G and Chairman of the Friends of the Burke Museum. It was also Mr Jenkins who came up with the idea of bringing the four suits of Kelly Gang Armour to Beechworth and the Kelly Weekend, and for this I congratulate him and the Committee. But our biggest concern is that the international exhibition of Kelly Armour will be held in the B.H.R.Gs own leased premises, namely the old Beechworth Police station. I am just one of many supporters of the Kelly Weekend, and we are all asking the question why such a local and important exhibition is not being held in the struggling Burke Museum?
It was only recently that the BHRG were given permission to lease their premises, and not long after that, the Weekend Organising Committee announced the arrival of the four Kelly Gang suits of Armour for the Kelly Weekend to be shown in their own BHRG premises. At the moment the BHRG are busy turning their premises into a 19th century police station, with help I have been informed, by low security prisoners from the Beechworth Prison who are known as the Prisoners On the Run. The four suits of Armour will be on exhibition in these small premises and can be viewed for a gold coin donation. With the many thousands attending the Kelly Weekend, I’m sure the BHRG, or should I say Ned Kelly Weekend Organising Committee, will do extremely well for themselves.
It’s no secret that the Burke Museum has been having trouble getting numbers through its door for quite a while. The Indigo Shire Council have recently had an expert study completed at a cost of some $25000 to find out the reason why. One of the major problems the study discovered, was that the Historic Precinct and the Burke Museum were operating as two separate entities instead of one. The report went on to say that by having scattered exhibits throughout the Historic Precinct it was like having a museum without walls, and quite detrimental to the running of what should be the central focus for the Precinct…the Burke Museum.
If the BHRG are supposed to be a community minded group of volunteers, why have they done the exact opposite, and turned their backs on the Museum for this International Exhibition of Kelly Gang Armour and denied the Burke its rights?
It was in 1880 when the Burke Museum first asked the then Victorian Police Commissioner, Captain Standish, for permission to exhibit one suit of Armour at the museum in Beechworth. They were denied this request and the Commissioner ordered the Armour to be sent to Melbourne and destroyed. We all know this did not happen, and know that two suits are still in the possession of police, one in the State Library and one in private hands. How could any community spirited group deny the Burke Museum its right after waiting patiently for 130 years for these suits of Armour to come home to the North East?
The museum has the space, experience, and security to exhibit such iconic items, so why doesn’t the BHRG show a little more community spirit. There are many of us, including living relatives of the Kelly Gang, who are not happy with the BHRG decision to hold this exhibition in their own premises. I thought the Ned Kelly Weekend was a Indigo Shire event, but it seems the council has left it all in the hands of a private group.
If your representative for the Border Mail is present at the media release on the 9th of March, it might be worthwhile to ask the spokesman for the Ned Kelly Organising Committee, who will most certainly be Mr Adam Wynne-Jenkins, a few rather curly questions. For more information regarding this matter, you can contact myself at the above telephone number at any time or Ironoutlaw.com.
re. All Quiet On The Armour Front
From: Alan Crichton – 15 Feb 2010
Good points Lisa, I think the BHRG have all gone to ground and have been instructed to keep quiet by their revered leader. Which only confirms their hypocrisy in that their grand launch for the 2010 Ned Kelly Weekend will be held…..you guessed it….at The Burke Museum, the very place they denied the Armour being shown. Talk about rubbing salt into the wounds. I suppose their headquarters at the Sub-treasury is out of the question, as they are currently busy renovating their police station with labour from the prisoners on the run from the local Beechworth Prison. How do ya like them apples? The boys would be turning in their graves. The launch will take place on Wednesday the 3rd of March. I wonder why I didn’t get an invitation? Getting away from the Weekend for a moment, I read in the paper that the bloke who wanted to start a business of tromping people through the Beechworth Cemetery at night has had his little scheme quashed. It seems the Cemetery Trust did not like the idea, especially when their were so many living relatives of those passed away still residing in the town. But what the heck……. I suppose a bucks a buck!! Who the blazes would come up with such an immoral idea anyway? Mmmmm, you don’t think it could have been that…..no, not even he would stoop that low……or would he??
All Quiet On The Armour Front
From: Lisa – 14 Feb 2010
I can’t understand why there hasn’t been a single peep from any of the BHRG members regarding the boys armour & the Burke Museum. Everyone agrees that it is brilliant that they have organised to have all 4 suits of armour together in Beechworth this year, but I just don’t understand why no one from the BHRG has written in to explain things and to give a straight answer once and for all regarding the armour not being displayed at the Burke Museum. They obviously look on the IronOutlaw website and would know about people’s concerns regarding the matter, as members of the BHRG have posted comments on here in the past. So why can’t one of their spokespeople or something just answer our concerns and talk about it and give their reasons why the display won’t happen at the Burke? Whether it is true or not, their absolute silence on the matter gives the impression of an ‘up yours’ kind of attitude. With many regular readers of IronOutlaw attending The Ned Kelly Weekend each year, and with it being THE website where many people learn about Kelly Gang events, I just don’t get why they won’t talk to the people and explain what will be going on with the boys armour, and why. It just seems strange, even childish. Why can’t they just explain their decision fully regarding their Sub Treasury Building, and why the Burke won’t be considered? We are allowed to question things aren’t we? We all just want what’s best when it comes to the boys. Maybe I’ll organise a protest march during the Kelly Weekend (which would be the only reason I’d go up this year, well that and Noelene Allen doing her talk)…
From: Lisa – 13 Feb 2010
Happy Birthday Steve Hart! 😀
re. Statue of Ned Kelly
From: Airi – 12 Feb 2010
Excellent suggestion Alan, I love the idea of a memorial garden on the Inn site. They do all deserve to be remembered with respect. As far as the armour is concerned, with the 130th anniversary Ned and the Gang are likely to feature in the media a lot more this year – why not make the most of the opportunity to gain support for reuniting the armour permanently by talking about it whenever and wherever a chance presents itself? Every rebellion has to start somewhere…
re. Statue of Ned Kelly
From: Alan Crichton -12 Feb 2010
It’s a strange ol thing, but when I think of Glenrowan, I only seem to get visions of many caught up in a tragic situation there, including Ned and the boys. But more to the point, is Glenrowan only about Ned? If the answer is yes, then build the statue of him, but if not, try looking for a more suitable alternative. The only problem with memorials and statues or the like, is that there is a very fine line that can quite easily, through time, alter their original purpose. These very same monuments can later be seen as nothing more than commercial enterprises for attracting tourists to a given location eg. Some of those spoken of by Mark. The large statue of Ned at the front of Kates Cottage in Glenrowan is an icon throughout Australia and overseas, but I would hardly call it a Kelly memorial, even if it were cast in bronze. So what makes Glenrowan so special? Is it the town itself with its souvenir shops and eateries, or is it all to do with, not only Ned Kelly, but the area where the historic stand off took place, and its fatal consequence?
If you agree on this point, then we must all be grateful that the owner of the block of land where Ann Jones Inn once stood, Linton Briggs, did not sell the property off fifty years ago. What could have quite easily been sitting there is a drive-in memorial to an iconic colourful clown, recognised universally as Ronald McDonald and his rather loud and swirling definitive M. What would have become of Glenrowan then? This small corner block is in fact, whether you like it or not,…. “The Glenrowan Memorial.” How many of us when visiting the siege sight wander over to the railway station and look back towards the site of the Ann Jones Inn and reflect on the violent actions that took place there between outlaws and police 130 years ago? How many people died because of those actions. The memorial at Glenrowan should not be just about Ned, but in remembrance of the souls who lost their lives there. We must all remember that Ned lost his life at the end of a rope in Melbourne and not in Glenrowan, unlike Daniel Kelly, Joseph Byrne, Stephen Hart, John Jones and Martin Cherry.
If Mr Briggs, for just a moment, could resist the influences hammered on him from local historians and so called academics to turn this site into a never-ending archaeological dig, we might just start to get somewhere. What if that corner block of weeds was to be turned into a Memorial Garden to remember those who died there? With plantings of trees, shrubs and wild flowers from the surrounding area. A simple stone path leading you through a place where an Inn once stood. A centred monument possibly in the form of the Ann Jones Inn sign with stone monuments in places where souls had their lives tragically taken from them. A simple bench where visitors can sit, pray, and reflect. Whether they be outlawed from society or innocent, they deserve to be remembered with respect. So tear down that bloody wire fence Mr Briggs, show a little respect, and open up your heart and mind to what is right and befitting.
The Fitzpatrick Conspiracy
From: Lisa – 9 Feb 2010
The Fitzpatrick Conspiracy article by Alan Crichton is very interesting. I certainly wouldn’t be surprised if it was all planned by the Police regarding the Fitzpatrick incident either. The disgusting behaviour by many of the Police regarding the Kelly’s really was unbelievable, so I wouldn’t put it past them. How many of them got away with treating people (they were meant to protect too) the way they did is madness. I often think of how that horrible thing Constable Hall got away with trying to kill Ned twice, by shooting at him and bashing his head in…….and for nothing! He should have been charged with attempted murder on Ned. You feel really frustrated and angry all these years later thinking about those incidents (Fitzpatrick/Hall etc), so I cannot even begin to imagine how Ned and the rest of the Kelly Family felt. It’s heartbreaking to read Mrs Kelly’s words in Cookson’s book. That dear little lady suffered so much, losing so many of her children so young and being thrown in gaol for something she didn’t do. Seeing their lives thrown away by lies and corruption, being treating so badly and unfairly and to be powerless to help her children when they needed her most, it must have been agony. Well said…
Return of the armour
From: Jonelle Matson – 9 Feb 2010
I recently read an article about Egypts heritage laws, where any artifact must be returned to Egypt, and then placed on display. Italy instituted laws similar, and in America, there are many laws governing Civil War artifacts (down to bullets). Private collectors face huge fines and even jail time, depending on how the acquired the artifact. Why does Australia not have similar laws? Why are private collectors allowed to hide away these nationally important relics? In the case of Joe Byrnes armour wouldn’t the laws re: resurectionists cover the return of his armour (i.e. you cannot strip a corpse of anything!). After contacting sellout Mr Garrett, I am told that this is not an issue worthy of consideration. Stinger, you are a lawyer, maybe there is some way of civil action stepping in here? Cheers. A very good point Jonelle!
re. Statue of Ned Kelly
From: Mark Perry – 8 Feb 2010
I agree with Lynden on the statue. It would be nice to see some thought, planning and taste go into a statue instead of the Bob Hempel type rubbish there at the moment. Along the lines of Benallas Weary Dunlop Memorial in their Rose Gardens maybe? Or Pt Lincolns Maykbe Diva? Gundagais Dog on Tuckerbox….Urallas Thunderbolt statue… There are plenty of examples where a town gets its memorial right. My point us, somrthing not oversize, brightly painted and garrish. Considering the Glenrowans Siege site is one of our most significant places I believe the memorial should reflect the gravity of this. Unfortunately, the Big Ned statue doesn’t quite cut it for me. (sorry Chris and Rod.) Just my thoughts. Cheers. What about a statue AND the return of the armour. A win, win…
re. Statue of Ned Kelly
From: Airi – 7 Feb 2010
Perhaps Glenrowan already has enough Ned Kelly statues, Lynden Cole? How about a fitting tribute to the whole Kelly Gang by working towards getting the four suits of armour permanently reunited and displayed together like they should be?
Statue of Ned Kelly
From: Lynden Cole – 5 Feb 2010
I am interested in gathering peoples thoughts and comments with having a life size bronze statue of Ned Kelly erected at Glenrowan. My hope is to see a completed statue on the site where he made his last defiante stand. This statue would be a tribute to a man who did what he had to do back then. The statue would be realistic true to life and not an abstact, standing tall with him wearing his helmet, overcoat and taking aim in the correct direction, mounted on a locally made granite base with descriptive plaques mounted to the base. This would be a tribute to probably one our most famous individuals. As Ned Kelly does not have a proper burial site or any tribute in his honour. Please lets get something happening as this is the 130th year of his final year. I would like to see a smooth progress towards completion as soon as possible. I need assistance in all areas of design, planning, approvals, funding, promotion, awareness etc. Please respond only positive and constructive replies. Thank You for your time.
Ned Kelly Prints
From: Leslie Roy Dick – 5 Feb 2010
Hi, I was wondering if you have any other photographs/prints of Ned Kelly that aren’t displayed in your current shopping page. Any information on available prints would be appreciated. Thanks. There’s plenty of images of Kellyana out there but not a lot of Ned…
Greta Catholic Church
From: Lols Rowe (nee Lloyd) [firstname.lastname@example.org] 30 Jan 10
A sad occasion the last Mass to be held in St.Bridgids , GRETA tomorrow before this little church is put up for sale. The Church that my Grand parents Rachel , Tom Lloyd & family attended in their horse and buggy .. Funerals.marriages etc held in this little church Wouldn’t it be great if one day Neds remains could have been given a requiem Mass there.!!!!!
re. Hello! Is Anybody Out There?
From: Alan Crichton – 29 Jan 2010
Dear Mr Webb, It’s so nice to see that you have finally returned from your seemingly eternal and most elongated vacation, however, I have been deeply hurt by your cruel and malicious remarks directed at a poor old chap struggling to make ends meet through his diminishing twilight years. To insinuate I drink cheap red wine has cut me to the very quick. I will have you know Mr Webb I have forked out up to $8.50 for a top shelf Cab. Sav, and have been known to lash out, and not give a damn, for a bottle of a fine imported drop amounting to, might I be so bold $10.50. But you are right dear young fellow in what you say. I sometimes reflect on the good old days when a hard years harvesting had been done, and a week of celebration and well earned rest was to begin. It was the time for annual Christmas holidays with family and celebration, and oh, how I wallowed in that one weeks time of rest with my family. Mr Webb, they were the days. I can understand how you must feel after only six weeks of annual celebration, and consuming outrageous quantities of spirit, imported beer, and wine as you sit back and take in once again a defeat for the land that is OZ, and a victory once more for some foreign country in the Australian Open Tennis on your 48 inch plazma screen. Thank god Mr Webb for the Australian cricket team! But I can assure you Mr Webb, after receiving an uplifting phone call of encouragement from my dear and well heeled friend Mr O’Keefe, and with my spirits spiralling forth regardless of the money he had made me spend at the David Jones Emporium, I shall make sure I fill your Ironoutlaw feedback pages once again this year. I look back on my shortcomings and sigh out loud Mr Webb…..SUCH IS LIFE!! Good to see you’re finally off the metho!
re. Wild Wright
From: Ellen Hollow – 29 Jan 2010
Isaiah Wright died Newcastle Waters NT Aus from Malaria. I believe he is buried there His wife Bridget Lloyd died 1884. They had a Son – John Thomas Wright b 1878
Hello! Is Anybody Out There?
From: Alan Crichton – 23 Jan 2010
Dear Mr. Webb, since the 15th of last year I have been, unlike some inebriated lost souls, wandering aimlessly in the historious and most bigness of infinity that we have all come to know as Kelly cyberspace. If you would be so kind to inform me….has there been a most dastardly alien attack on Ironoutlaw, or has some other catastrophic disaster that I am unaware of befallen our most revered Kelly website to bring its feed back section to silence? To seek some form of companionship over this moment of silence, I have tried ringing Mister Ian Jones on the telephone number Mr O’Keefe gave us in the last feedback, but in doing so have been somehow lumbered with six shirts, three pairs of pants and a bloody synthetic sports coat I didn’t really need. As it is now the year 2010, could we please get back to some serious! Kelly business? Unlike some old rusty retired dudes that stare at the clock wishing it was 5pm so they can uncork another cheap bottle of red and drink their pension away, I do have a day job plus a little thing called annual leave. But I’m back now so feel free to flood my inbox once again!
From: Matt – 20 Jan 2010
Hi all, Can anyone provide info on Wild Wright in later life. I understand that after Ned was hanged he served time in NSW with JIm Kelly for horse theft. What happened after this and where is he buried.
From: Narelle Roberts [email@example.com] 08 Jan 10
I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW THE HISTORY OF NED KELLY PLEASE AND IF THERE IS A NEWSLETTER ALSO PLEASE IF SO CAN YOU EMAIL IT TO BLUEANDGOLD8@GMAIL.COM I think there is a web site called ironoutlaw.com that may hold a few answers
From: Peter – 1 Jan 2010
Is your Ironoutlaw T shirt available in short sleeves, and not just long sleve? Sorry only long sleeve at this stage. However, with a sharp pair of scissors…